I think regs would be pretty happy if we got like 45 % rakeback in 1 reg games and 60% rb in 2 reg games but pokerstars would probably never implement this.

Nope, life is not that fair!

They cancelled Duel?

Yes, they did

I don't think Spins are ever going to die really.

They're not, the ability to make any significant money (100k+) will die at some point assuming stars doesn't at least lower rake in reg v reg play. But it's not like the regs ability to make significant money affect the 'ecosystem' in any way and it certainly doesn't hurt amaya's bottom line so we can expect them to just die at some point.

Or not, with 35 cEV you still make 92k in EV over 30k games and I doubt top regs will not be able to achieve that at any point in time so it becomes a game of prisoner's dilema. In the unlikely scenario that the games do become hard enough that even top regs can't even break 35 cev then some of them will leave and the balance will be restored. However i think it's unlikely top regs will really go down that much. As coon74 said, weaker regs will just move down so we can assume there will always be an equilibrium.

If a game's reputation for profitability goes down then there is certainly going to be a real decrease in that game's population.

But I think there's always people in poker willing to gamble -EV, and spins (and HUSNGs and most other popular games) seem fun enough to where the only real risk of them dying is if they are replaced with something similar but more appealing (like regular speed --> turbo speed --> hyper speed evolution).

At what stakes is there a huge skill level increase at these spins? Was playing a few of these at the micros.


Also is there a sharkscope where i could view the top winners at each stake? I checked sharkscope for sngs on stars and from the look of it, i do not think they record spin and goes at all.


Also i assume there isn't a good ROI for each individual stake whether 3s, 7s, 15s, 30s, 60s, 100s etc like with hyper turbo since its mostly trying to hit the big spin and go? Thanks.

Spinlyzer used to track a lot of spin players' stats incl. VPIP etc by means of illegal datamining (players were complaining that there was an observer in their every game) until recently when Stars finally found a solution that stopped it from working So now its data has only historical value and will soon get too old to be relevant.

I haven't bothered to view the data myself, but a Russian €50 Twister (former $60 spin) reg stated a week ago that, according to the 'best hours' feature that was measuring the reg-to-fish ratio (in terms of buy-ins paid) at any given hour of the day, the reg-to-fish ratio at 30s is more than twice bigger (worse) than the one of 15s, at any hour, whereas the difference between 60s-100s (combined) and 30s is 1.3 times.

So the skill leap between 15s and 30s is the biggest.

thanks for that info. I took a look at spinlyzer and have to register an account. So by doing this, would i be able to see the top leaderboard etc? I want to look at it like sharkscope where i want to know how much money say the top 20 players made at the 3s, 7s, 15s, 30s, 60s and 100s etc. Basically want to look at the leaderboard and know what is the highest ROI for the top players. Also


I would have thought the leap from 30s to 60s would been higher than from 15s to 30s but i thought it was pretty close.


How many tables do most players play at once with these? I see you can reg up to 5 at a time.

15s to 30s by far most noticable skill gap imho

heard from a friend that site only does 15-100s tracking and the same friend said the site is now stopped tracking so pointless buying

so the friend says

thanks for that information. So does that mean no reg who plays the 3s, 7s, 15s, 30s, 60s, 100s are willing to tell how much they are making at these? Because im not even sure how one could even estimate an ROI for these since most of it depends on the spins etc. And by that i mean someone who only play spins and thus put a lot of volume in these.

Because of the wild multiplier variance, every reg uses EVROI. For simplicity, 5%+ is good and attainable at all levels (higher/easier at the lower stakes of course).

Okay i see mentioning here about cEV which i have not heard of. Does HEM2 show what this is? I'm curious to know how im running in these as im pretty certain im running bad in this.

I don't really know if this is still true at 60s/100s on PS, but I can tell you that on some other sites (like WPN) top regs aren't winning at 5%. Obviously at lower stakes 5% seems possible just about everywhere.

He probably meant '5% incl. promotional income'. Even then, it would be a surprise to me if 3.5% pre-rakeback was realistically (not just by several beasts) attainable at Stars 100s.

I've never seen the datamined stats, though.

I might be wrong, but no I mean 5% actual.

I said it was attainable and good. Not a guarantee to anyone who can autopilot while playing 6 tables and watching epic twitch fail youtubes on their 2nd monitor. Yes, pretty damn easy at $7s and f***ing hard at the $100s. But doable. Refer to above discussion about people actually putting in serious effort. If one single crusher manages 5% over a decent sample, that qualifies as "attainable" imo. Especially when they're playing more than 1 table, which inevitably they are.

See: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=258

Bighusla attaining 41cEV / 3% when by his own admission, "not always playing his his A game" when tired after near 40 hour work weeks on other things @ ABI $89.

On Spinlyzer, over last 10,000 games there are 2 people with SpinROI of 5.0% or higher at $100 's. Over last 6000 games there are 6.

Lol. A much, much better question to ask is "could a reasonably hardworking, solid regular attain this?"

Real people have won the lottery and real people have become President of the US. Seems attainable, right?

just to let ye know theres a free $35 in tourney tickets on partypoker today if you play 5 each of 5,10 and 20 dollar sit and go hero lottery games. Can only play 4 tables at a time tho.

Does any US friendly site have these other than WPN?

Nope.

The 100s regs with 5%+ ROI are elite regs who are playing 4 or less tables. If more regs wanteed to 2 table instead of 4-6 table there's be at least 20 regs with 5%EVROI.

Not everyone can get there, depends what your definition of 'reasonably hardworking' is. Are you willing to make poker the center point of your life and devote ~200 hours/month for a few years? Achievable. If you're a wizkid who gets the right coaching and has a super effective work process maybe doable in less time. Most of the crushing 100s regs have been playing for years. Many 100s+ HU Hyper regs from days past are playing 30s now.

Plus, the whole 'Oh I would get an extra 2% if I really tried' line is LOL

I was starting to think I was the only one that lol'd. Good to know that I am not alone.