Well, I put a tinfoil hat on because the questions about whether iPoker's Twister (that has no observer feature) is being mined (I mean, at a wider scale than Sharkscope etc. subscribers' own observations) and to what extent it's immune to global mining has been worrying me for a while, as I see that Stars are being mined at low stakes already Perhaps there has been no effort towards mining Twister anyway until now because it was known that the new beta soft was coming up and it wasn't worth the effort to hack the old client version.

The cookie idea is silly indeed, though; cleverer hacking ideas would be needed to infest a wider player base than just the overly curious folks like me, and in that case, the hackers would most likely place keyloggers on victims' computers anyway, which would be far more profitable than just mining (but of course a big crime).

Is there any info on how stars are generating the multipliers? Also is there any online record of prizepools paid out vs games played i.e are the amount of multipilers being dealt correct. I am sure enough games have been played now to have a sample big enough to see this.

someone could ask spinlyzer guys

I asked stars support, they sent me the usual automated message about checking prize distributions on their website etc etc .. Not really answering what i asked .. so i mailed them back..

to PokerStars
You did not answer any of my questions, I was asking how is each multiple chosen, is it a certified rng that you use or is it some guy with a bucket and a chicken picking the the multiplier. I also asked if there was some kind of report on spins played relative to prizepools paid out. You spread these lottery type games and I would expect some way to see that the money paid into the prizepool is the same as prizes paid out, I really don't think that this is asking too much.


They replied

Hello *****,

Thank you for your reply.

Please note that in my previous email I wrote:

"A full list of the probabilities for each level of Spin & Go can be found here:

http://www.pokerstars.uk/poker/spin-and-go/

**That is all the information we have about the Spin&Go multipliers.**"

However, I will gladly try to answer all your questions:

- I was asking how is each multiple chosen, is it a certified rng that you use

Yes.

- or is it some guy with a bucket and a chicken picking the multiplier

No

- I also asked if there was some kind of report on spins played relative to prizepools paid out.

No. There might be one, but this information is not available to customer service representatives, so at this time I cannot provide one.

- You spread these lottery type games and I would expect some way to see that the money paid into the prizepool is the same as prizes paid out

It is, except for the rake

- I really don't think that this is asking too much.

I agree it is not much to ask but unfortunately we simply do not have the necessary information to answer to your questions.

Also, I have forwarded your concerns to our Poker Room Management Team for their review.

Please keep in mind that we receive thousands of emails containing ideas, suggestions and feedback each month, so unfortunately we cannot respond on the merits of every one. However, we read every single email and give each suggestion careful consideration.

We really appreciate the time you have taken to suggest improvements to our website and the information provided on Spin&Gos.

Please let us know if you have any other ideas or questions, and thanks for playing at PokerStars!

Regards,

Silvia F.
PokerStars Support Team


I don't have any real concerns as stars have always been pretty much above board, however transparency in these areas would be nice when so much money is involved.

That would even be more serious

Don't you remember that Stars have released special videos on how their laser-based RNG works?




I'm quite sure they use the same RNG to generate Spin multipliers, it's not a big increase in its workload anyway.

They have never really clarified how the spins multipliers are chosen so you can't really just assume they use the same RNG. I am still not sure they do use an RNG as the information the customer service rep was giving seemed a bit like he only knew as much as I did already anyway. If you can find any info that is directly related to the spins please share as it seems like there is only guesswork at the minute.

No real info- I have posed the same question ITT many pages back after looking through the Amaya company reports.

I would be happy to trust Stars RNG at this point tho based on past experiences. After all- we should have the same confidence that spins are truly random (Stars states explicitly that the prize pool allocation is random, and not just an exact expectation) as we do for the randomness of deals.

If Stars gives out info as to the number of various prizes paid out, they are giving away valuable info to their competitors regarding the volume they have in Spin 'n Gos. I would not expect them to do this.

It would be just silly of them to invent another RNG specifically for the multipliers after they've spent so much effort setting up the elaborate card-dealing one.

At the highest stakes ($15-100), where SpinWiz almost doesn't miss games, the multiplier frequency info can be collected accurately by its server. So you could ask MOV EAX to write code that would count multipliers in the games seen by SpinWiz (for a decent monetary compensation, of course, because his customers aren't interested that much in him spending effort on the RNG fairness checking feature instead of other long-desired improvements, lol).
No, that's not the reason: assuming that the probabilities of multipliers are indeed the same as those announced officially, the number of running games can be estimated accurately basing just on the frequencies of the top (observable) multipliers. I once wrote a thread about this.

''Make sure buy ins at bottom are active,table limits are saved''

I keep getting this message,have already checked all these,and spin n go still doesnt run.I messaged spinwiz support,they didnt reply.

Any solution?

Problem solved.

You seem to to imply with your amazing wit (which I highlighted in bold so we can all enjoy it) that i don't think stars deals a 'fair' amount of multipliers. I was only asking them to confirm how they were chosen (with some tongue in cheek humour there too but obviously not up to your standard). The customer service rep confirmed they use an rng so thats fine. Clearly we all need to keep a keen eye on every poker site so we can avoid the past industry 'indiscretions' (UB, FTP etc etc) or at least find out about them. Do you think it is out of line for a customer to want to see some figures that money paid into a 'prizepool' is the same as money paid out? Do you think that Pokerstars needs to be transparent in all it does? Did you also 'lol' at people when they said FTP was going down the tube or that something was wrong on UB?

There is no serious question about questionning the algorithm of a multinational number 1 in poker. Everything is controlled because the first plus-value of this company is the quality of the servers and the complexity of the algorithms that give you the cards and in this case give you the prizepool. Of course, this company will not give you any algorithm, people are paid in research lab to build very complex products, no doubt about this.

Hey does anyone have stat so EV$ can be shown in graph? thx

Thanks for reading and not understanding what i wrote. I have no issues with the rng, I wanted confirmation that an rng was used in the selection process.

Not sure what more you want or why it matters. Of course they use a RNG. Who cares if it's the same one or not.


Baard's response to the concern not long after they introduced Spin&Go.

I've only played my first spin and go today (cause of the puzzle pieces promo) and must say I hate every thing about them

I'm only playing the $1 entry and out of about 20 spin and gos I've had roughly 17 $2 2 $4 and a $6.

**** off stars with this bull****.

edit: played another 4 - 4 $2 prizes.

Is normal:
5 / 100000 = 1000x buyin for the winner (0.005%) - also pays 100x for second and third
10 / 100000 = 200x buyin for the winner (0.01%) - also pays 20x for second and third
15 / 100000 = 100x buyin for the winner (0.015%) - also pays 10x for second and third
80 / 100000 = 25x buyin for the winner (0.08%)
1000 / 100000 = 10x buyin for the winner (1%) - 99.9% of starting 1$ Spin & Gos are between 2-10x
8000 / 100000 = 6x buyin for the winner (8%) - 98.9% of starting 1$ Spin & Gos are between 2-6x
13510 / 100000 = 4x buyin for the winner (13.51%) - 90.9% of starting 1$ Spin & Gos are between 2-4x
77380 / 100000 = 2x buyin for the winner (77.38%)

I meant they had never really clarified it that I knew of until the customer service rep did to me in the email. I posted the email in case anyone else was interested in the response or had a similar question. I had googled it and couldn't find any info other than the one page on stars site. I didn't realize this thread was some private club and any other input other than that about spin wiz is frowned upon.

It's not a private club and nothing is frowned upon only because it's not about spinwiz.

fix9- ppl try to "one up" one another in forum posts all the time. I didn't find anything that sounded snarky/rude at your expense. C00n's posts are generally made in that tone (I used to frequent the chess forums where he is active).

If you wanted to find out an answer to a question- there is no need to be so sensitive about replies.

Add a new tournament stat in PT4, use this as definition:

Wrote it myself so if that's not the best way to do it - apologies. The last part of the expression is rakeback with hard coded 40% (0.4). Change it to whatever % rb you got or 0 if you want pre-RB $EV.

Is there an alternative to Easy Street to switch Huds automatically? Cause my graphic card doesnt support Aero so i cant use Easy Street.

spinbeasts give a hud swapper with their premium hud, not sure if they sell it seperate but you could always ask. It's locked to your stars sn so no freeebies