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**Official PokerStars Heads Up SNG Improvement Thread** **Official PokerStars Heads Up SNG Improvement Thread**

02-20-2012 , 06:22 AM
I have one more thing to say:

F*CK the CHOP button! This is cr*p! Play to win, if you are scared just don't play!!!
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02-20-2012 , 07:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regret$
Please no register delay. If people clogging the lobbies and you have a problem then you play them. Merge has lobby delay and I hate, probably 1/8 games is a mistake. Lots of people will quit you then you both accidentally reg ontop of each other and play again.. Donotwant.
wat u can unreg after u get a game? i hope i read this wrong
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02-20-2012 , 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regret$
Please no register delay. If people clogging the lobbies and you have a problem then you play them. Merge has lobby delay and I hate, probably 1/8 games is a mistake. Lots of people will quit you then you both accidentally reg ontop of each other and play again.. Donotwant.
Please understand what the register delay actual is before opposing it.

Register delay means once someone registers in a Sit&Go, nobody else can register for 2 seconds afterwards. Once the 2 seconds are up, anyone can sit.

People opposing things they don't actually understand can be damaging to great ideas, be very careful when "voting" for something that you understand the full consequences. Stars won't adopt something if it isn't unanimous.
**Official PokerStars Heads Up SNG Improvement Thread** Quote
02-20-2012 , 11:12 AM
If anyone has any specific promotional ideas for Heads-up Sit & Gos, by all means suggest them in this thread. Bear in mind that one of the major reasons for any promotion is to encourage new players to play Sit & Gos, although they have to make business sense as well. So while “Free money for all SNG players!” would no doubt boost the player pool, we probably wouldn’t go for that

The reason we haven’t had a heads-up leaderboard in the past is that with two-entrant tournaments, collusion between players to achieve a high score is much more tempting. Any promotional ideas should take this issue into consideration and avoid a format that could be exploitable through collusion.

Promotions should aim to attract completely new players rather than just moving a player from one game to another. Also consider the possibility of promotional ideas that might not benefit you immediately, but would indirectly benefit you in the longer term by boosting the player pool and making games more attractive.
**Official PokerStars Heads Up SNG Improvement Thread** Quote
02-20-2012 , 11:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PS Walmsley
The reason we haven’t had a heads-up leaderboard in the past is that with two-entrant tournaments, collusion between players to achieve a high score is much more tempting. Any promotional ideas should take this issue into consideration and avoid a format that could be exploitable through collusion.
I'm not sure if FTP did this, but I've certainly seen the idea mentioned before - a reasonable way to prevent such collusion is to only allow leaderboard point score between two players for the period (month, week whatever) to ever be +1 or 0 (draw). if players continue to play, all that can happen regarding leaderboard standings is the current loser can get back in front and then get a point while the previous winnner loses his and of course a draw with no points awarded is possible too.

So the winner of the $200 leaderboard would be the player who has beat the most different opponents at the $200 stake, rather than one who has simply racked up a huge string of wins vs a few selected friends.

This encourages people to play each other, and does not give room for collusion that I can see (aside from massive multiaccounters but I hope you guys have a good handle on those already ) I'm not certain, but it may also blunt the massive edge for hyper players vs turbos / regspeeds given their short game time just a "who's won the most games" leaderboard they'd always all be hyper players. that may well still be the case, so perhaps differnt leaderboards by format may be better, depends on the sizes of player pool I guess.
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02-20-2012 , 11:53 AM
FWIW, FTP gave less points for ST wins to balance it out. No need for different leaderboards for different formats.
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02-20-2012 , 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by u cnat spel
FWIW, FTP gave less points for ST wins to balance it out. No need for different leaderboards for different formats.
this!

i think the FTP leaderboard was very good. Stars should just orientate at FTP-leaderborad and tweak it like they think it is best.
**Official PokerStars Heads Up SNG Improvement Thread** Quote
02-20-2012 , 01:50 PM
Could we not have a FPP tournement for players of SilverStar or GoldStar with a nice prizepool. It would encourage some players who are playing the $3.50 or $7 to play more volume or move up (and have to deposit) if they have the chance to get a cheap entry into a HU Tournement. It doesnt even have to be weekly, Monthly would be good.

I know you do the 100FPP 30k Tournement every week for a stardard MTT, but it think if you had a tournement like this i would be more likely once a month to spend some FPP's on tournement entrys. Also you would get alot of players from your player pool not just HUSNG Players entering this.

Also a FPP Ticket for the Saturday Duel in the VIP Store, Im not interested in the storm or any other so i think this is something that could be added at little or no expense.

Best of 3 matchs/Tournements would be interesting and i think would be popular with some players.

I love pokerstars i just think some of these suggestions could improve it for the whole HUSNG Community

Also there are no sats into the weekly HU Tournement, If i want to qualify i would have to do the steps, which are 9 handed, and not what i want to play.
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02-20-2012 , 02:13 PM
I'd like a best of 3 hyper HU MTT.

About promotion:
- leaderboard similar to FTP would be fine
- Another idea, 7$ Heads Up Sng ticket as a reload bonus, so that a lot of new players can test it
- advertising husng more or maybe even a isildur (or bjoerni) challenge
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02-20-2012 , 03:20 PM
completely agree with wsop_Jak

+111111111111

super post really, I'm loving all of the ideas
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02-20-2012 , 03:33 PM
Okay I have an idea that is kind of a merge of stuff other sites have done in the past and will attract new players to the site imo. Would also increase interest in husng's and capture the imagination of recreational players who want to spin up a small deposit and have fun/some glory.

When i started out on iPoker they had a really sick promo. You had to win like 7 sng's in a row to scoop a big bonus of $20k or something maybe even bigger. The prizes were relevant to the buy ins so like

win 7 $6 sng's in a row and you get 3k

win 7 $100 sng's and you get 30k

cant remember exactly how much you won or how many you had to win but something similar to this would be cool.

I was thinking like a challenger kind of format and make it similar to the steps they had on FTP to satty into the WSOP. And instead of a WSOP package you could have X amount of cash or an idea i like would be to play a 5k husng vs a pro.

So you start out at $1.5 step one you win that your progress to step 2 at $6 games and so on. If you manage to win the penultimate game at $2k then you get to play the 5k husng vs a big name pro like isildur.

And once you progress in the steps you can't use the money in other games you're only allowed to use it in the steps format.

Picture it like Mortal Kombat.
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02-20-2012 , 04:30 PM
Thing about the Ipoker jackpot sngs was they took sick rake to fund it.
**Official PokerStars Heads Up SNG Improvement Thread** Quote
02-20-2012 , 05:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PS Walmsley
If anyone has any specific promotional ideas for Heads-up Sit & Gos, by all means suggest them in this thread. Bear in mind that one of the major reasons for any promotion is to encourage new players to play Sit & Gos, although they have to make business sense as well. So while “Free money for all SNG players!” would no doubt boost the player pool, we probably wouldn’t go for that

The reason we haven’t had a heads-up leaderboard in the past is that with two-entrant tournaments, collusion between players to achieve a high score is much more tempting. Any promotional ideas should take this issue into consideration and avoid a format that could be exploitable through collusion.

Promotions should aim to attract completely new players rather than just moving a player from one game to another. Also consider the possibility of promotional ideas that might not benefit you immediately, but would indirectly benefit you in the longer term by boosting the player pool and making games more attractive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeHerOnACruise
Okay I have an idea that is kind of a merge of stuff other sites have done in the past and will attract new players to the site imo. Would also increase interest in husng's and capture the imagination of recreational players who want to spin up a small deposit and have fun/some glory.

When i started out on iPoker they had a really sick promo. You had to win like 7 sng's in a row to scoop a big bonus of $20k or something maybe even bigger. The prizes were relevant to the buy ins so like

win 7 $6 sng's in a row and you get 3k

win 7 $100 sng's and you get 30k

cant remember exactly how much you won or how many you had to win but something similar to this would be cool.

I was thinking like a challenger kind of format and make it similar to the steps they had on FTP to satty into the WSOP. And instead of a WSOP package you could have X amount of cash or an idea i like would be to play a 5k husng vs a pro.

So you start out at $1.5 step one you win that your progress to step 2 at $6 games and so on. If you manage to win the penultimate game at $2k then you get to play the 5k husng vs a big name pro like isildur.

And once you progress in the steps you can't use the money in other games you're only allowed to use it in the steps format.

Picture it like Mortal Kombat.
Imo the above can be combined rather well.
In some countries (ie Belgium) regulators are not very keen about giving cash bonus as reward for the FPP.
Now instead of first deposit bonus / recharge bonus / HUSNG leaderboard bonus (in form of FPP or cash); it is imo not that hard to calculate an equivalent "Free HUSNG tournament ticket system".
i.e. with every % you play free of your deposit or with every place at the leaderboard, you earn a ticket that can only be used to enter a HUSNG tournament.
This way you actually reward a free ticket that 'can' result in $. If regulators ask about where the money comes you can just honestly answer that this is precalculated seperated butgetted money (catched by rake) on purpose invested in free HUSNG for players who deserve it / for players to reward / for players to give a better taste of what you have to offer (like in every other free sample promotion campaign).

The moment you allow people to deposit; they have to choose for which buyin they are going to earn tickets.
First ticket (or every ten/20 or ...) has to be a free HUMTT in a stepping stone untill hitting a Stars Pro like explained above. You can also use historical 'giving up bonus farming' to place the 2nd HUMTT tickets just behind that % to increase motivation.

Colluding is not really an issue imo; you just have to make sure that when 2 players chop and exactly win 50% it is impossible to make money (although I have to admit that I am not known with the Supernova and such bonus systems such I have not really an idea where the current equilibrium is laying ... ) and such the deposit and redeposit bonus system is safe for collusion.
By making first ticket the HUMTT, collusion does not make sense as everyone can achieve the first ticket.
Regarding leaderboards, you can either choose between +1 -1 0 and only last score counts or to either choose between +1 -1 0 (first match) +1/4 -1/4 0 (2nd match) +1/9 -1/9 0 (3rd match) ... both methods can be proved mathematically that it does not make sense to play over and over again the same opponent. The first system can result in players declining when hitting a score but they keep registering and such playing and can also result in players keep chasing a win when losing which is not present in the 2nd system. For professional players, the likelyhood of an opponent chasing is higher then of him quitting imo. And beginning players are imo attracted by binking a win and moving on.

The tickets ensures players stay in HUSNG a decent long time enough and such increase the HUSNG trafic.
The HUMTT entry tickets systems ensures players can chase the dream of just playing once a high stakes poker player which is imo not that hard to advertise/ work out more deeply and to focus on while advertising.

Although I can understand the concern of not really wanting to move players from one game to another. I think you can agree that the amount of games/hour in HUSNG is always higher than the games with more people at a table. Knowing that most players available hours are capped a week / you will see more played games a week and the profit you can make is increased per week imo. I cannot imagine that the cost of 1 game is not proportional to the amount of players in a game. Meaning that the cost of running 1 game is fixed, is imo unlikely.

Last edited by Emus; 02-20-2012 at 05:43 PM.
**Official PokerStars Heads Up SNG Improvement Thread** Quote
02-20-2012 , 06:45 PM
Finally we are all agreeing on something!!!!

Please keep the LB ideas coming
**Official PokerStars Heads Up SNG Improvement Thread** Quote
02-20-2012 , 07:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PS Walmsley
If anyone has any specific promotional ideas for Heads-up Sit & Gos, by all means suggest them in this thread. Bear in mind that one of the major reasons for any promotion is to encourage new players to play Sit & Gos, although they have to make business sense as well. So while “Free money for all SNG players!” would no doubt boost the player pool, we probably wouldn’t go for that

The reason we haven’t had a heads-up leaderboard in the past is that with two-entrant tournaments, collusion between players to achieve a high score is much more tempting. Any promotional ideas should take this issue into consideration and avoid a format that could be exploitable through collusion.

Promotions should aim to attract completely new players rather than just moving a player from one game to another. Also consider the possibility of promotional ideas that might not benefit you immediately, but would indirectly benefit you in the longer term by boosting the player pool and making games more attractive.
How about a promotion like Party Poker's card rush? It accomplishes leader board for regulars and little gambley things get new players excited.

http://www.partypoker.com/promotions/card-rush.html
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02-20-2012 , 08:30 PM
im happy with the classic leaderboard style (Bop/FTP), i think its what works best in general

also promote every time isildur1 plays 5k $ husngs (he has battled a ton of players like stars pro 'Bjoerni' and there was nothing said about it.), and ask him if he'd like to do HUSNG 5k$ wars since im sure many of the highstakes HUSNG'ers would give a shot of fame against him. This also includes the idea of having bigger restricted buy ins. (For challenges). I think railing husngs is much more exciting than cash, the main problem is they keep closing so its hard to rail
**Official PokerStars Heads Up SNG Improvement Thread** Quote
02-20-2012 , 08:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperRu
How about a promotion like Party Poker's card rush? It accomplishes leader board for regulars and little gambley things get new players excited.

http://www.partypoker.com/promotions/card-rush.html
+1 i love it
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02-20-2012 , 09:01 PM
Random promo idea:

Maybe April could be Heads Up SNG month. In addition to debuting some sort of leaderboard described in this thread, perhaps there could be some sort of Golden Ticket Giveaway.

4-5x a day a ticket can be awarded to a random player playing heads up sngs, the ticket would qualify them for a heads up MTT at the end of the week (32 person, though 16 could also work, I think any more and it's too long shot for too little reward, any shorter and it's not wide enough of a promo).

The winner of that MTT could play a pro for 1-5k in a heads up sng. Week 1 could be Bjoerni, week 2 could be Daniel, week 3 could be Isildur, week 4 could be another known pro that at least dabbles in heads up sngs (Moneymaker for instance).

Plenty of modifications could exist, you could aim the tickets at specific buyins (low stakes for example to attract newer players in higher numbers) and during specific times of the day (high traffic times, or low traffic to boost action during those times).
**Official PokerStars Heads Up SNG Improvement Thread** Quote
02-20-2012 , 11:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by emotionx
im happy with the classic leaderboard style (Bop/FTP), i think its what works best in general

also promote every time isildur1 plays 5k $ husngs (he has battled a ton of players like stars pro 'Bjoerni' and there was nothing said about it.), and ask him if he'd like to do HUSNG 5k$ wars since im sure many of the highstakes HUSNG'ers would give a shot of fame against him. This also includes the idea of having bigger restricted buy ins. (For challenges). I think railing husngs is much more exciting than cash, the main problem is they keep closing so its hard to rail
+1
**Official PokerStars Heads Up SNG Improvement Thread** Quote
02-21-2012 , 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoRy
Random promo idea:

Maybe April could be Heads Up SNG month. In addition to debuting some sort of leaderboard described in this thread, perhaps there could be some sort of Golden Ticket Giveaway.

4-5x a day a ticket can be awarded to a random player playing heads up sngs, the ticket would qualify them for a heads up MTT at the end of the week (32 person, though 16 could also work, I think any more and it's too long shot for too little reward, any shorter and it's not wide enough of a promo).

The winner of that MTT could play a pro for 1-5k in a heads up sng. Week 1 could be Bjoerni, week 2 could be Daniel, week 3 could be Isildur, week 4 could be another known pro that at least dabbles in heads up sngs (Moneymaker for instance).

Plenty of modifications could exist, you could aim the tickets at specific buyins (low stakes for example to attract newer players in higher numbers) and during specific times of the day (high traffic times, or low traffic to boost action during those times).
+1, I really like this idea
**Official PokerStars Heads Up SNG Improvement Thread** Quote
02-21-2012 , 04:23 PM
Yeah ChicagoRy idea is another great one.

I would love HUSNG month!!
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02-21-2012 , 08:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PS Walmsley
The reason we haven’t had a heads-up leaderboard in the past is that with two-entrant tournaments, collusion between players to achieve a high score is much more tempting. Any promotional ideas should take this issue into consideration and avoid a format that could be exploitable through collusion.
I understand, but wouldn't it be very hard to exploit a leaderboard like the one FTP had? You only get a point if you have a positive winratio vs someone and you don't get more points if your winratio gets higher vs this person. If ppl want to collude they need a very large group of players.
**Official PokerStars Heads Up SNG Improvement Thread** Quote
02-22-2012 , 10:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoRy
Random promo idea:

Maybe April could be Heads Up SNG month. In addition to debuting some sort of leaderboard described in this thread, perhaps there could be some sort of Golden Ticket Giveaway.

4-5x a day a ticket can be awarded to a random player playing heads up sngs, the ticket would qualify them for a heads up MTT at the end of the week (32 person, though 16 could also work, I think any more and it's too long shot for too little reward, any shorter and it's not wide enough of a promo).

The winner of that MTT could play a pro for 1-5k in a heads up sng. Week 1 could be Bjoerni, week 2 could be Daniel, week 3 could be Isildur, week 4 could be another known pro that at least dabbles in heads up sngs (Moneymaker for instance).

Plenty of modifications could exist, you could aim the tickets at specific buyins (low stakes for example to attract newer players in higher numbers) and during specific times of the day (high traffic times, or low traffic to boost action during those times).
+1 to all this
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02-23-2012 , 03:28 AM
finally some nice ideas, keep them coming
the structure change is indeed a bad idea imo, this is what makes them profitable, the time in which they are over (also what makes many fish join them)
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02-24-2012 , 02:22 PM
I raised in the last thread didn't get any love so maybe it's a lousy idea, have a multi-match option, ie you both commit to 3 or 5 games to be played consecutively (not multi table).....
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