bump for prosperity.

wow sick, hold on i'll do some math if this is true OBV has to be changed ASAP because i don't want people to implement huge ev- spots in their game =/

we've been TARPED no wonder I'm on an endless downswing

p.s. can mods please sticky this thread once all the math/errors have been double-checked/fixed, so that we can just refer beginners to it instead of answering the same questions over and over?

really weird, can some people check this with me?

suppose we have KK and openshove, blinds 0.50/1.00; villain will call with KK+ which is 7 combo's (6 AA and 1 KK); against that range we have 22.618% equity according to pokerstove, there's a total of 50*49/2 other hands (because we have two cards, and there's 2! permutations)

SOOOOOOOOOO villain will fold 1218/1225 times, which will net us 1.5bb's each time
villain will call 7/1225 times, we're going to have 22.618% equity against that range, and let's just call our stack Z here
so we need to see where the breakeven point is, and that is by the formula:

1218/1225 * 1.5 - 7/1225 * 0.22618 * Z = 0
<=> 3654/2450 = 1.58325/1225 * Z
<=> 3654/3.16652 = Z
<=> Z = 1154-ish
wtf?

I think it should be


1218/1225 * 1.5 + 7/1225 * 0.22618 * Z - 7/1225 * 0.77382 * Z= 0

Need to factor in both when you win with your KK and lose. I think?

Edit: Which is 476.59 bb, I believe.

Edit 2: Which I also believe that means the Chubukov numbers are in $, and should be 1/2 of what they are for bb.

FYP

actually, that's still wrong. Second term should be * Z + 0.5 also

ok, ignore that.

chubukov numbers are specified really weirdly.

Sklansky is actually a poker player, right?

lol

Thanks,

So 477.297 bb.

A little off from 1/2 of the Chubukov numbers just because of not keeping enough of digits.

Alright, well either way Chubukov is in $ so we need to half it, I am somewhere close to the actual value

yeah but appearantly it's still calculated in sb's, doesnt matter the 0.5 + or - that much; k thanks for pointing this out, however can't change the OP anymore so some mod should do it imo, i'll try and contact one

and bexxs, pm me for a free hh review for pointing this out if you want!

ok, pretty sure you need the +0.5, but not the -0.5.

Your stack at the *start* of the hand was Z + $1, or Z + 0.5bbs.

Your opponent obviously has to call Z+$1, so that's what you win. but you lose Z.

seriously, weird-ass stacksize calculation, and the answer specified in small blinds.

Are we sure sklansky actually plays poker?

thx for the changes chicagory!

very nice post indeed.
Nash is -EV in my opinion. Every time i got called using NAsh the opponent was favorite...
95% at least. So Nash is worthless

Just to reiterate a point: shoving when shallow from the SB is all about fold equity against so so many opponents. Being an underdog when called is very often more than offset by all of the blinds you pick up when people fold. Over time, all of those chips won by shoving wide (as wide or wider than Nash) and getting folds add up to more $ than shoving tighter.

in "the mathematics of poker" by Bill Chen, where I believe the Nash table first appeared, you can get the details of the calculation process.
Chen recommand using Nash from 12 BB OOP and 10 BB in the SB.

Sage is a simplification of Nash so if you are not a live player u might as well use the real thing (Nash). Helmuth Melcher the guy that calculated the tables for holdemressources.net explained to me once that:
“Sage is an "easy-to-remember" rough approximation of the nash equilibrium. It is designed to be simple, at the sacrifice of accuracy. It's a nice system if you don’t want to spend much time learning HU endgame - but it does give off some edge vs. someone playing the "real" nash equilibrium.”

If your opponent is exploitable exploit him and forget about Nash. it's always better to exploit his tendancies. Unfortunately sometimes it's easier said than done! especially if you play turbos. Otherwise you can't go wrong by using it. But I guess we are not going to start again with the "exploitable" vs "optimal" discussion....

by the way it might be basic for some but for the others:
if you want to calculate your shove EV :
assuming
A= % time you are called,
B=The effective stack in BB,
C=% time you win when called

SHOVE EV = 1.5 - A + AB (2C-1)

For instance: let say that your opponent calls with his top 44%, the effective stack is 7 BB, you have T7o should you push? Using pokerstove (or others) we find that T7o wins vs this range about 36% of the time therefore:
SHOVE EV= 1.5- 0.44+ (0.44)(7)(0.72-1)= +0.1976BB you can push it’s +EV

first page bump since he wont post anymore

very< nice post -tyvm

another great post by spamz0r

i had my own assumptions about corect end game by reading and researching info from various sources but this post put everything in context for me and totaly changed my style at late game big blinds

first page bumps

bump for the Queen of Belgium

bump for teh awesomes