/thread

3x is only a very small portion of the hands that beat you.

if i knew answer to your first question i wouldn't be making thread
it's possible there was another one triple barrel in between but if so, i folded river; it wasnt immediatly after the QJ hand though, the other triple barrel i can think of may have been right after this hand as well

yeah that's about the only worse valuehand he can have imo

doesn't he have spades/45 here a lot of the time when he's value betting and rarely 3x AA/KK or AK/Ax

it's def gross but i think i fold it honestly

man it is really annoying that the river is the K since now you chop with every 3...

That said, he should have AK, every 3 and possibly every A in his range on the river trying to push you off a chop.

No way I'm folding the river.

confused by this post.

I'm closer to this side of things.

Ooops, missed this. Yea, I think it is a fold unless you think that he thinks you will fold Ax on this board.

im sure iv heard that cash players love to barrel flush cards lol

what im strugling with is that he could be value betting the turn with worse (Ax or even 55-KK) if he thinks u have khigh a lot and then trying to bluff u off that on the river. because really how often do u have better than weak Ax or Kx here

i think the chin means that the amount of 3x combo's is really small compared to flushes/straights/boats

It depends on his opening frequency (which you alluded to a bit but not with %), there are like 35 combos of chopping 3x but a lot of those are foldable pre.

sigh, call. I think he ships every nut boat/flushes if he puts u on spades or a 3

between 80 and 90% i'd say that his open% was in that hand

given his history of shipping river in that previous hand you posted, do you not also think that he would be shipping river here with his nutted hands, hence slightly reducing the value range that he bets this amount with?

I would pretty much just call here, villain is (most likely) to have some deep thoughts about the game since he plays cash... furthermore our range isn't really that strong:

we will c/r flushdraws most of the times on the flop given his double barrel frequencies, I think c/calling flop with for example a flushdraw and than c/raising a blank because he double barrels quite some %% (and is FOS on occasions) is a bit TOO much. So we are likely to c/r flushdraws on the flop, also we do not have really 45x in our range given we would (imo) either check/raise the flop with it or fold it, obv (imo) not flatting with it.

so than our range is most likely to be NOT nutsy (apart from like A3), so he knows that you knows that his triple barrel on this board will LOOK/be SUPER strong... and that he has a lot of FE....

Also we have like the top of our perceived range so i will be calling here...

He may even be betting some Ax some %% of the time etc...

pasterbator nailed the thought process i was going to try to express inadequately. The QJ bet/bet/shove (on a board that you couldn't presumably have an A) would lead me to call as well but I am no where near the skill level of most ppl in this thread so... grain of salt.

edit: did he ever have a read on you that you check/call nutish hands?

yer i agree with this tbh

If you've c/c 2 streets can't you range be weaker than Ax? as if you have Ax you make a move earlier to avoid chopping the pot? would villian think like that?

If villian has some kind of Ax then he's not going to love chopping so a tripple barrel will get you off middle PP and some A as it looks more like the flush or the 3 <- and your range here looks like neither of these kinds of hands.

Bump for your opinion, play...

We don't have the top of our percieved range, we can easily have a flush, we might check raise a flushdraw some of the time but you can't just assume he cancels it from our range because we flatted the flop - even if we actually are at the top of our range thats not an argument for calling.

I wanted to fold first, then started to think about calling and then I was told the results and I'm incredibly result oriented and thus any thought on it doesnt really count.

i think a cash player's way more likely to expect you to fold Ax to a 3barrel. i hear ppl can actually make folds in cash.

also, if you c/c flop w/ a FD, do you c/c again on the turn w/ the flush?

Definetly.

i dont think i'd ever bluff here against a cash player

we need 31% equity here and if you put zero bluffs in his range we get this (someone check that for me please ):

91 games 0.005 secs 18,200 games/sec

Board: As 3s 3c 2s Kc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 21.978% 09.89% 12.09% 9 11.00 { Qd3d }
Hand 1: 78.022% 65.93% 12.09% 60 11.00 { AA, 22, AKs, A3s, KsQs, KsJs, KsTs, Ks9s, Ks8s, Ks7s, Ks6s, Ks5s, Ks4s, K3s, QsJs, QsTs, Qs9s, Qs8s, Qs7s, Qs6s, Qs5s, Qs4s, Q3s, JsTs, Js9s, Js8s, Js7s, Js6s, Js5s, Js4s, Js3s, Ts9s, Ts8s, Ts7s, Ts6s, Ts5s, Ts4s, T3s, 9s8s, 9s7s, 9s6s, 9s5s, 9s4s, 93s, 8s7s, 8s6s, 8s5s, 8s4s, 83s, 7s6s, 7s5s, 7s4s, 73s, 6s5s, 6s4s, 63s, 5s4s, 53s, 43s, 32s, AKo, A3o, K3o, Q3o, J3o, 63o, 53o, 43o, 32o }

Pokerstove just deleted the range and I'm sure as **** not typing that back in but it looks like we need him to have something like 10 combos of bluffs to make this a call. i think i'd fold if i was playing well

if you need to add flushdraws to a range, use propokertools with *s*s you silly

wats dat

easier syntax imo: http://www.propokertools.com/simulations
both for flushes/draws and it merges suited/offsuit as just AK (instead of AKs,AKo)

board: As3s3c2sKc
Hand Equity Wins Ties
Qd3d 17.96% 9 19
*s*s,AK,A3,K3,Q3,J3,63,53,43,54,32,22,AA 82.04% 75 19

you forgot 54 btw

mm cool bookmarked

guess its even more of a fold 54 is a lot of combos