This is a division that apparently you can't join if you sit decline, and yet littlemage, who is on the 60s sit/decline list, has made it as one of the leaders. Really cannot see how any of this has happened.

hahaha

I saw a few really horrible ss graphs, breakeven or slightly losing. Either a lot of these players are bluenowhere versions (read - run under ev, play only regs) or... actually I don't know what. Also isn't successfully battling 60s enough to get in?

How come some guys with 2 roi or less at sharkscope, who I know for sure are not happy battling, are in?

I don't think some of them realize what follows now, when starting with weak members, while leaving strong outside.

No, there will be changes obv. as you can imagine esp. since its in its early phase
As i stated before, the situation for 30s is a bit different as the player pool is a lot larger than 60s/100s. So if someone thinks he was not considered please let us know.

But please, i got messages from guys that put in like 6k games/year or are basically BE at 30s and only can show a solid ROI for 15s - they just have to play their way in.

In regards to if previous games count - no. Only games played when division starts count.

In regards to who is worthy or who not - well, same game as always, the picture will be a lot clearer in a couple months.

Lol at previous games not counting
One joke after the other itt

Can someone explain to me how do these cartels work? Judging by this topic it seems immature as ***. Like a bunch of ppl on a skype group just decide to make a list and make a cartel.

Can't believe stars allow something like this

Sent from my Xperia P using 2+2 Forums

+1

Please read up on this topic first before commenting. There are a bunch of threads in this forum about it and divisions are "old" and Stars is well aware about what is going on.

I thought declining rematches is not allowed, yet guys on the list are doing just that... I guess its ok bc it doesnt count yet... lol

Let's get ready to rumble! First in reveives an oscar:-)

So you're complaining about not being able to get action while your games are not gonna mean anything and saying "lol" afterwards.

Why Y2Valey in?
He doesn't match starting criterias. You creating not divisions, just bro-gangs, when somebody can join 'cause he has only friends and no skill.
http://gyazo.com/0405ce423044f41bda7379ece8c9b7ec

here is full list
http://gyazo.com/68b1c657abeeb4155cd94faadf0b81ff

Also I scouting severall guys and they have worse results than me, but they still in. And Im not invited. Scumbags.

not really, im just saying how can those guys be on the list if they are declining rematches... ofc I rather play fish than reg

Bigdog422 and f1reb411 hahahahahaha.

GL 30s division and good luck to all of you guys who didnt make it in the start and will attempt to fight their way in through EV system.

The waitlist on 30s is insane atm, I don´t really see how any serious reg could complain when there´s a relatively easy EV system to get in through. Heads up hypers are competitive its not supposed to be some kind of "become the best bumhunter in the world." I guess some people think that that´s competitive aswell, but really come on the system at 30s, 60s AND 100s div are pretty damn fair.

I remember back in the days before there was any 100s div where fish hunting regs with 50% VPIP would flame you like hell for sitting them and ask things like "Wtf is your problem?". Some would even say "Wtf go check the leaderboard you idiot, you are sitting a top 20 leaderboard player." After a while I realized that the little roi I could get from sitting some of these guys who had no clue how to play vs anything other than fishes probably just wasn´t worth it. A lot of them would just time out their turns and decline me right after either way. It annoyed the hell out of me the day I realized that I was only crippling my hourly by playing them. The other players who didn´t sit these guys weren´t idiots for not doing so, they just understood that they would get much better payed from battling fishes than playing regs with ~2% rake.

Anyway, I understand that people are angry because some players might have deserved to be in the starting lineup of 30s more than others. You cant really use your roi as argument though. Truth is that a lot of the players that were kicked out from 100s and 60s after the competitive EV system are actually rather great vs fish. Just find the guys that you think are weak in the 30s div and play them and get in. In the start up of 60s division it was actually more profitable to be outside of the division and battle weak division players than being inside of the division. There´s just sooo much reg battling the first 2 months and you can´t game select at all like you can when you are outside of the division and can force any weak reg to 2 table you.
Obviously though I understand that being in the starting lineup still would be way better for anyone since it is risk free.

You have to see the bright side in this. If there is a reg on the list that you think is so bad that you sit him every time you see him already, this will be your dream come true. This reg will no longer be allowed to decline you and you can force him to play 2 tables against you. If you think that any player like this is lucky for getting into the divisions starting lineup you might wanna reconsider. These guys are likely to have -6% EV roi or even less for thousands of games ahead of them till they give up and move down. Trust me you are HIGHLY overrating the value of being inside of the division from day 1.

I think this has a simple solution , find out the weak guys and sit them relentelssy , basically all the players out can and should unite themselves also dont forget this basically
is a series of players networking so leanr the lesson

If 60 regs outside this group made another Cartel they can fight better if you dont want it dont complain

Good post Dilandio

+1.

I don't think there is any possible combination of players that could be picked where people would not claim this is the case,. If an omniscient being had selected the best possible people for the list, you would still have people questioning some selections and saying they just got in due to connections. Statements like this then become devoid of meaning, as they are entirely predictable no matter who the list contains. If you truly believe that to be the case, well you have some easy targets to select, you will get in easily, they will have a torrid time and drop out. There is no great injustice being done, being placed into a group where the pressure is too much for you (especially so given the ev system is in place immediately meaning that unlike start of 60s/100 where incentives favoured not sitting only weaker people) is not a desirable position.


Results are just one of numerous factors that determine skill. Since the 60s division came into effect I don't think I have looked up the results of any reg at 60/100 to gauge whether they are worth playing. In the context of playing people who are already established as regs, the results are almost meaningless, there are people with 1% over decent samples I think are hell to play against, and people with 3-4% over large samples that never put you in a tough spot. This is why commenting exclusively on peoples stats as to whether they are good or bad is incredibly naive. Perhaps he has played quite a few regs and he had lots of people commenting about how strong his play was, which is a better metric for gauging skill than results themselves. Of course that is pure speculation, I'm just using it to point out the flaw in basing your entire argument solely around results.

If anything with the ev system in place from the start, you are in as good a position as most, likely everyone will have high % of games v regs initially. People outside who did deserve to be in can prove that in less than a week, whilst immediately showing themselves to be one of the stronger ones in so getting sat far less frequently in future than those that started in. If you put the effort in by this time next week you can have already earned back 30s lobbies whilst proving to everyone you are significantly better than average. If there are so many bad regs in then it should be very easy to collect the ev you need to get in, gl

Gather your friends and create a counter cartel (there must be enough regs at 30s). Would be cool to see some fireworks and survival of the fittest.

Yes, you are right, almost in all.
But still you pick couple of members, that worse then others. And, I think, they need to prove their place in first queue.
Basicaly if they are hard to estimating THEN JUST DONT TAKE THEM in first wave.
What the point taking weak regs, when cartels missions to clear lobby from weak's?

One more thing, main reason that i wasnt invited is not so high roi (still higher then Y2Valey and margrinder), so for them "Results are just one of numerous factors that determine skill."
for me - "People outside who did deserve to be in can prove that in less than a week"

This is policy of double standards, Putin is this you?

Serious Q, but why don't the $60/$100 cartels just invade the $30s? I'm pretty bad and even I've noticed that a lot of the $30 "regs" are bloody horrible.

You are right, there is absolutely no point in having weak members in a starting lineup. The division definitely dont want weak players either. It is however IMPOSSIBLE to get all the best regs in the starting lineup from the start, no division has ever been anywhere close to succeeding with that except maybe 500s or 1000s which arent actually real divisions since the player pools are so small. Since read sharing is not allowed the only system that stands a chance in making sure that weaker players get replaced by stronger players is an EV system.

What you dont seem to get is that it really doesnt matter if there are a couple of weak names in the starting lineup. The more weak names there are in the starting lineup the better it is for the guys who wants to fight their way in. When 100s started their EV system there were at least 10 guys from 100s div who would get sat immediately by a trier as soon as they started. These guys lost thousands of dollars per week from being inside the division and a lot of them quickly decided to move down because it literally sucks to be in a division with EV system if you are a weak reg vs reg player.

If you have a clue about how to play reg battles you will notice that a division that has an EV system and force 2 tabling rules for minimum 30 minutes from day 1 is a sick gold mine. While being inside of it during the first 2 months when there is tons of lobby cleaning that has to be is actually terrible because you literally cant game select at all.

EV Divisions really greatly favours all strong reg battlers and makes life impossible for bumhunters. The only downside of the system is that it gets a lot harder to get in after a couple of months when all weak players are kicked out. Another downside is ofc that there are lots of other regs that will try to steal the weak players from you which makes it a little bit harder than it sounds. So trust me, the only thing that would be better than having weak players in the starting lineup for a guy who isnt invited into the starting lineup would be to be invited himself from the start. So stop complaining at the worlds most fair division system and start crushing!

You are entirely misunderstanding what the phrase double standard means. If they got in based solely on results that are worse than yours and you got rejected because results mean very little/aren't good enough, then that would be double standards. The entire point of what I said was that results are one of numerous factors, you managed to quote that and completely miss the meaning contained within my post.