3d game vs this guy hes a winner and has a very solid graph im probably -EV vs him tbh but i enjoy playing him so much because sometimes he takes v weird lines and makes interesting plays that i cant really figure out tbh, and i just find him an interesting villain

unfortunately, no real reads yet and i was just wondering what your thoughts would be on this hand obv i have to fold the river, but what do u think that the most likely holding for villain is here?

Poker Stars $20+$1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t10/t20 Blinds - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: t1660 83 BBs
Hero (BTN/SB): t1340 67 BBs

Pre Flop: (t30) Hero is BTN/SB with T A
Hero raises to t60, BB calls t40

Flop: (t120) 3 T J (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (t120) 5 (2 players)
BB bets t60, Hero calls t60

River: (t240) Q (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t80, BB raises to t1540 all in, Hero folds

fwiw his betsizing seems to be half pot be it for value or as a bluff mostly
i check behind the flop, because i want to turn my hand into a bluff catcher more then try and bet for value and get called down by a weak J this might be pretty bad actually, am not sure atm, but at the time i was playing, vs that specific player, it felt like a good idea to check behind a flop for a change

why are you betting the river

frankly, im not sure, but the way he played it it felt to me like he had some kind of 3 or 5 like a small pair maybe some hand like 88 and i think on the river this kind of villain cannot fold A high for such a small bet

i just felt like there was value to betting because this guy COULD call with worse, but i didnt see much merit in betting something like 180 chips or so, so i bet 80 yes very exploitable i know, from this hand you can obviously tell im still working on my game, and trying to improve it in alot of ways, im just experimenting with different things and playing some regs when possible, i just feel like if i check the river behind, that i miss value from a 5 or a 3 or alot of pp's like 88 77 66 which doesnt seem like an impossible hand to have for him i think even 88 or so would be more likely for him to be his hole cards then lets say K9 (up untill the river ofc)

but im 100% honest here when i say, this hand i was just lost lol i really dno wtf happened here or what he was doing in that hand, so i figured it was interesting enough to post it here ^^

Well to me betting 180 is much much better than 80 b/c to a reg 180 seems like nuts/air so he will look you up w/ ace high much more often (although close to never still), whereas 80 just reps the hand you have. as played snapfold.

i deffo 10000% agree with ur post here: but when i bet 180 and he calls with like J6o i just feel so dirty haha

and ofc its a snapfold on the river

but my question was what do you think his holecards are

if anyone else grinds 20s on stars, i can post SN of villain maybe that will give some people a better idea?

good fold.

villain has AK.

note that he'd not 3bet AK.

really doubt it, seen him 3bet AK 2 times earlier already ofc he could be flatting with it for balance i guess, but i really really doubt it


i just find his river c/raise so weird i mean, ofc maybe he knows that when he checks river after checking flop and half potting turn im pretty likely to bet it (cuzz im a fish ldo) but at the same time, when the queen comes off, some might consider it to be a scarecard but i dont consider it a scarecard, or at least i dont consider it a card on which he will fold often, aka this queen coming off probably according to him does not help me much (and my betsizing also gives away that it doesnt really ) since its more likely to have helped him then it would have helped me ( and therefor IMO be a bad card to bet on, as a bluff ) , since id prolly semibluff close to all draws gutshots esp on the flop trying to take it down there, so HIM knowing that the Q most likely did not improve my hand, can he really expect me to bet (and possibly call a raise) on that river? wouldnt it for him be better to just bet out on the river since im probably more likely to check behind then to bet on that river? im really suffering with check/raising river for value everytime i wanna do it, i end up getting checked behind, and everytime villain does it i fall for it, thats why this hand is very interesting to me, check/r river and dealing with c/r on the river is definately a concept i have not yet mastered hell **** mastered i dont yet understand fully

fwiw i tried to put my words together in the best possible way so they make sense, but am kind off tired already and my english is not that perfect
and i appreciate all input a ton ofc

this is ALWAYS wrong.

villain instead has k9.

i mean, i wanted to post K9 too, especially K9 of spades.

But it's so horrendous if villain doesn't have AK.

OP can't call with anything less than AK the way action played out.


I mean, OP bets 33/TT+ 100% of the time. OP bets Jx+ 100% of the time. OP bets 98/Q9/KQ some large # % (like 90-100%) of the time.

OP can easily have AK here.

why?

yeah i just can like never call on the river except with the nuts the way it got played

btw i edited previous post a lil

here is btw how the game ended :

and im just shocked at how light OP got it in with at a reg speed game and reg speed on pokerstars is almost like no blind increase

Poker Stars No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t15.00/t30.00 Blinds - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: t1515.00 50.50 BBs
Hero (BTN/SB): t1485.00 49.50 BBs

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is BTN/SB with 6 6
Hero raises to t90, BB calls t60

Flop: (t180) K 6 3 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t90.00, BB raises to t300, Hero raises to t720, BB raises to t1425, Hero calls t675 all in

Turn: (t2970) 4 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: (t2970) Q (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: t2970
BB shows K Q
Hero shows 6 6
Hero wins t2970.00

maybe he thinks your line is a bluff because "zomg who fast plays AA/AK/sets on a board like this"...

^^dunno what kind of reads he has on you, but getting it in w/50bb w/KQ on K63 I wouldn't consider a leak.

The first hand you posted is a stupid bet by villain unless he has a read that you're a fish who would call it off with any Q there.

well truthfully, i played one game vs him perfectly A game etc, and won fairly easily like he did nothing worth remembering or worth note taking, second game idk i was drunk as **** and according to hem i lost it lol

and this was third game so i cant even imagine what kinda reads he mighht have on me, but i guess i mightve made some V 4d pair okay lets gamble like calls when i had a drink too many in 2nd game


and what like seriously? in a reg speed game on stars? vs a 4bet on flop? KQ cannot ever be good there cmon

yeah i was hoping he would think like that and that is exactly why i played it like that :d

i hate your flop check

elaborate why plz, in retrospect, i hate the entire hand :P


normally id bet the flop for value (ldo) but over the last few days ive had it happen a few times that i cbet the flop with like middle pair and people just flat and then they donk turn or check call turn again or c/r turn, and then on river when i check they bet and it just gets me into these spots where im kinda guessing and just gross spots so i was experimenting a bit with checking behind more flops today...

didnt read responses so im hoping to not bias myself

i'd half pot cbet flop. tons of value and you dont wanna just cbet top pair and air. its awesome when you cbet bottom pair and that trips up on turn since they never ever give you credit for it and people float so light that you can cbet any piece for value. if he flats i try to check all the way down given how the board came off but if turn and river bricked id bet like 100 in it on river. if you elected to check flop, call his turn and check river and obv never ever ever ever call river unless youre russ hamilton

yeah ofc this is how i would normally play it like 95%+ of the time
and i also understand why, but that isnt my question at all :

my question is = what is villains range do u think ? and more importantly, why does he think that this is a good spot to c/raise river, since he IMO (im prolly wrong tho) cant think that i think that that river Q has improved me more then it has him ((i hope it makes sense, but i just dont see why he thinks i will bet the river // why he doesnt just vbet the river ))

its a 20, dont be too concerned about him questioning whether the q helped your range. he can obv have like k9 i think is a decent percent of his range and hes like zoink! second nuts obv gonna check raise. people are greedy and youre just not good here, esp not for the odds youre getting. i dont care if you showed you a bluff haha. i heard a saying once that when playing kinda worse players you should be focused on your holdings in conjunction with their range. so here youd be like hmmmm, im facing a huge c/raise on the river. in general, does middle pair beat this type of hand. in the end you have a pair of tens facing a massive overshove and youll just so rarely be good.


god i know i just sat through a 3 hour class but its sad how poorly i write about poker and explain my thought processes. i guess i suck cause i think chiry once said youre not good unless you can clearly explain your reasonings


in terms of whether its a good spot to c/r for him, im sure you fold a ton and there are some people who always bet small with marginal holdings so its so easy to check raise them off their hand, but i still think whatever hand he has its a stupidish line

one more thing, this isnt a marginal spot on the river, esp readless in situations like this.

i know what you are trying to say joe and i deffo agree with everything you say ^^

its obv not a tricky spot on the river its an easy snap fold

ive just been thinking alot about c/raising rivers and i cant quite wrap my head around when it is a good spot and when it isnt to do it yet like i dont get it fully yet, so i guessed this was a good hand to get some more info on it from some more experiencned players ^^

Just cbet... it will definitely help your decisions on later streets if he calls.
I would need a particular read on that villain to check back this flop: if he check-raises a ton and/or barrels big on many turns, we might want to control the pot right there... but you haven't given any reads.

wtf? c/c flop and donk turn rarely happens (at least in my experience)
vs a checkraise on the turn you're toast anyway
and how can you check river in position and they still end up betting? magician?

true, it doesnt happen that often but theres this one guy i play alot on ftp, who does it all the time and it looks so ****in strong when he floats the flop and donks the turn


yeah my bad wasnt really thinking hard bout it was probably too tired, should post here more during daytime , and less during evenings

ill be off to go and read some of ur hand history review topics spamz0r, because idk i ran really hot in the beginning of september, and after that have just been autopiloting a bit, experimenting a lot, really playing c-game and just not thinking about the game the way i want to be thinking, eitehrway ill be off to spain for a week now with some friends, thx all for your replys and insights aand ill see you all in a few ;d