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15ht oesd vs 2 bar

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07-17-2016 , 09:53 PM

ficilan

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 434

PokerStars - $14.69+$0.31|15/30 NL (2 max) - Holdem - 2 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 17.67 BB (VPIP: 75.00, PFR: 62.50, 3Bet Preflop: 50.00, Hands: 8)
Hero (BB): 15.67 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T

SB raises to 2 BB, Hero calls 1 BB

Flop: (4 BB, 2 players) J

Hero checks, SB bets 2 BB, Hero calls 2 BB

Turn: (8 BB, 2 players) 6

Hero checks, SB bets 4 BB

Do we call here? or fold?
was thinking about non ai ch/r but be got just 3,5bb left if we ch/r to 8bb ott

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07-17-2016 , 09:56 PM

BigFredy007

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 240

fold.. don't like a xR at all..

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07-18-2016 , 02:37 PM

smoketwojoints

stranger

Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 10

I'd fold because it's the easiest thing to do, not because I think it's necessarily correct. Leading turn with a small sizing would be ok, shoving flop if villain is raising/cbetting too much which people playing in "readless" situations like to do a lot is also an ok option.

Calling sometimes and folding sometimes is probably the correct answer here.

Last edited by smoketwojoints; 07-18-2016 at 02:49 PM.

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07-18-2016 , 04:53 PM

obbudsman

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,472

Fold. Don't x/r

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07-18-2016 , 05:57 PM

kobmish

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,752

Call the turn.

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07-18-2016 , 10:08 PM

ficilan

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 434

on river ch/c straight, ch/f rest?

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07-19-2016 , 01:36 AM

obbudsman

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,472

Quote:

Originally Posted by kobmish

Call the turn.

There will be 7.67BB into 16 left on the river. Assuming stacks will always get it if you hit (which they won't always), you get 1 : 4.92, so you need 16,9%.

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07-19-2016 , 04:07 PM

kobmish

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,752

Quote:

Originally Posted by ficilan

on river ch/c straight, ch/f rest?

Donk shove straight, x/decide the rest with mostly check folding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by obbudsman

There will be 7.67BB into 16 left on the river. Assuming stacks will always get it if you hit (which they won't always), you get 1 : 4.92, so you need 16,9%.

It's a little more complicated than that, it's not only imply odds for hitting straight that goes into calculating possible CF here. Also I have absolutely no idea what you are calculating but if you assume you win whole stacks when you hit the straight (which is not too far from reality if you play the river correctly), you get to call 4bb to win 31bb, so 12.9%.

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07-20-2016 , 12:43 PM

obbudsman

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,472

Quote:

Originally Posted by kobmish

Donk shove straight, x/decide the rest with mostly check folding.

It's a little more complicated than that, it's not only imply odds for hitting straight that goes into calculating possible CF here. Also I have absolutely no idea what you are calculating but if you assume you win whole stacks when you hit the straight (which is not too far from reality if you play the river correctly), you get to call 4bb to win 31bb, so 12.9%.

Assuming stacks always get in on the river, you get to call 4 to win 19.67 (8+4=12 in the pot plus the 7.67 effective stacks left on the river). 19 / 4 = 4.9175. Therefore we need 100 / 5.9175 = 16.9%

If we had to call 4 to win 31, it's 11.4% right? How do you come up with 12.9%?

What am I doing wrong here?

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07-22-2016 , 02:58 AM

#10

yasuo

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 2,105

Another question: should we have a cr range on turn?

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07-22-2016 , 01:25 PM

#11

obbudsman

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,472

Quote:

Originally Posted by yasuo

Another question: should we have a cr range on turn?

We only 'need' a bluff raising range vs regs

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07-22-2016 , 01:27 PM

#12

obbudsman

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,472

Still waiting for someone to enlighten me on the math above though

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07-22-2016 , 01:34 PM

#13

de0

centurion

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 170

4+4+8+7.67+7.67 = 31.34

4 / 31.34 = 0.1276

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07-22-2016 , 02:39 PM

#14

obbudsman

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,472

That's just wrong. We have to compare what we risk (4BB) to what we can win (current pot + what Villain will put into the pot if we hit = 12 + 7.67 = 19.67BB).

4 : 19.67 equals 1 : 4.9175, so 16,9%

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07-22-2016 , 02:59 PM

#15

de0

centurion

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 170

yea you're right wasn't really thinking about it, thats how kobmish came up with that number though i think

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