Hey all,

Last year was the first year for WSOP that the marketplace was available, and it totally blew up and got pretty crazy. I bought a lot of action last year (somewhere between 30-50k) and was unhappy with how some of the threads went. I thought maybe we could come up with guidelines that need to be followed in order to sell a package through the 2p2 marketplace

some stuff on the list for me would be:

selling multiple packages with multiple tourneys in them. By this i mean say you're looking to 20 wsop tourneys, these should all be in 1 package, not 4 individual ones. There are cases where people are playing tourneys with much higher buyins than the rest that its fine to sell those separately imo because they attract different buyers.

prompt and accurate updates of some sort. its not hard to either get twitter on your phone or update threads at night.

accurate accounting. the best threads last year were the ones were people made spreadsheets etc to keep track of everything as it went on.



Theres a ton more im sure, but thats all im thinking of right now. add on to this please so we have less chaos this year.

Yea honestly anyone who didn't update daily last year should basically be shunned.

Completely agree on the multiple packages as well.

I just really doubt that it will get as big this year as it did last year because of all the problems that we had. I feel like if investors just approach the process with a little more scrutiny and really do their homework that everything would be vastly improved. I just think that most of the packages where **** went wrong there were at least some signs that the person was shady or didn't really have a rep at all. Simply be more demanding of references as well, don't stand for random people with 100 posts vouching.

This has to be emphasied imo. On the last days I bought action for about 20 PCA packages, and about 5-6 of them got like 0 or no updates until people started asking for them. One of them had no single update even 1 week after the PCA finished (even though the guy was still posting on other threads) and I had to PM him so he could finally update it.

Players/sellers have to realize that this is an important part of the proccess. If you don't be clear on your updates, you'll have a hard time selling another package in the future. It also makes the whole thing unclear, which is bad. I'd say for sure that I wouldn't buy anything again from a seller that hasn't posted decent updates in past threads.

Myself, as an example, have been selling packages for big live events in Brazilian Forums for a long time now, and I'm sure that my detailed accounting and reports are one of the main reasons people are still buying.

Thats my 2 cents,
gl all

Well the PCA internet was horrible, so I can give people a pass on that. But for the WSOP I definitely agree with you on the need for daily updates. I plan on making a package for a few events, and I will make a twitter with several updates per day for sure. Acting responsibly with investors' money like it is their own should be the standard, not a privilege.

is it too much to ask players to take pictures of their receipts to verify they played an event or not?

Kylen--

No, it's not.

Pokerbrat--

Internet in the tournament room was more than good enough to Tweet.

All my best,

--Nate

ya i guess a lot of it is on the backers, but a ton of it is on the people who are supposedly "selling themselves." They should take a bit more time and do their accounting and updating without being hassled about it. But i guess thats somewhat on the backers to not buy action of people that they dont want to deal with. either way, i dont think having something added to the guidelines for posting a thread in this forum would be a bad thing.

Yeah, those are the biggest things that were annoying last year.

Most people did a remarkable job of making sure they made a really detailed post to sell their packages and then did absolutely nothing to update. 100% people should be required to use Twitter to sell packages. Even if you don't have internet you can text updates.

As far as multiple packages go, I feel like it just shouldn't be allowed unless there is a special tourney like the 50k horse or whatever.

All--

I don't really see a reason why everyone should ~have~ to update Twitter, but it would be a good ground rule to assume that anyone who doesn't say otherwise will provide regular updates. (There is so much information to gather at a WSOP table that Tweeting after a hand can be a big mistake. FWIW I found this to be much less true at the PCA.)

I think it would be very bad to prohibit people from splitting series into different packages. Different tournaments have different values to a player, and he shouldn't be forced to necessarily sell them off together. However, it's very good to know that some buyers strongly prefer series to be sold as one package.

Strongly agreed that horses should work very hard to make sure buyers are informed and can be confident their money is safe. Taking pictures of receipts is a good idea, at least for anyone with a smartphone.

All my best,

--Nate

the internet at the PCA wasnt horrible enough for it to be a main excuse for not updating.


i agree with all that has been said in this thread so far and cant really think of anything else.


I hope this year isnt a "lost cause" in terms of selling shares again.




Last year I sold 3 packages. i sold one to all the 1k's and then i noticed someone buying a ton of packages/buying all the action to MTTs and i privately PM'd him and asked if he wanted to put me in 5 1500's. he obliged and i played those two packages separate. I then sold action to the WSOP ME separate as well. I am trying to figure out if you guys have a problem with this type of situation.

note: my main idea was to sell to the 6 1ks and than sell the ME as a separate package from the start and felt this was best for investors as well.



Also, in terms of taking pictures of receipts: I really think this should be the standard. i know when i played my 5 1500's for my private investor i asked if he wanted to see the receipts, but he declined. For the WSOP ME, i was lucky enough to make it deep/cash, and someone had 50% of me so he basically vouched i made it deep. I suppose i didnt really show proof i played the 1ks, and i regret this looking back now. (i was in a house with like 8 guys who all could vouch i played)


this is turning into some sort of rambling post, but i think the following should be 100% standard


Proof of playing---taking picture of receipts.
Updates everyday you play---either by tweeting, or by posting in a rail thread

Glad this post is finally made!

But to be honest I Highly think the backers/investors need to do their homework on on their investments some key tips to investing in wsop packages..do the homework now and dont stress as much later

1.Has the player ever sold a package on 2+2-if so how did it go?How were the updates?
2.Does he/she have 2+2 references-if so what kind of business was conducted..
3.Do ur home work-check opr and sharkscope..do realize mtts are not cash games..so investing in a cash game player dont expect a high roi..
4.coming from a player who has sold live and online packages/ Taking photos of start stack and rec is a must and posting on my facebook is how i usually do it ..I also always give my investors the option to add me to their facebook to check for updates their or to send me private messages since i insta rec fb messages to my cell.

Most important is updates, i mean all cell phones have internet and twitter ...and most if not all hotels have a computer u can pay to use..

Wsop packages as far as break down goes should soley be up to the player and what he/she feels is their best interest, Im with zima on the wsop package break downs..

one of the main issues for me with selling multiple packages is that i try to buy the packages i feel are most +ev..so say i see someone sell a package for every 1k and every 1500 the wsop this year, this is obv a great value. Then their package snap sells out, and they sell another package with a bunch of 3-5ks in it, and they sell a way higher % of themselves so they're basically freerolling...this cuts down on my ev because that player is going to be more stressed out, and also because if they have the choice of playing a 5k with a 1k field of a 1k with a 3k person field they may skip the one i invested in because the other has a better chance at a big score. Iono, to me, some of the people were shady/frustrating with it last year. I have no issue with what you did zima, the 1ks and the main are very different and i think selling them separate is just fine, especially because the main is like 65% of the total package, and then selling a package to a private investor is just fine as well.

Well first of all you can make your twitter private so that only your investors could see it. Or you could just not reveal your hands in your tweets, all people care about is chip count updates for the most part. I personally believe there's no excuse for not using some form of twitter/fb to update at least once every few hours. It takes like one minute and it really enhances the experience for the investors. I updated after almost every single level during the entire WSOP in which I played 25+ events. It's really not hard and you dont even really have to include details, a simple chip count would usually suffice. That's one of the best parts about buying pieces is the sweat and being able to follow your horses.

see your point and obv agree with it.


trying to figure out how the MP can counteract such things. maybe putting in the OP what that person thinks he will be selling for the summer. will kinda be a like a "100% disclosure" type clause. if they plan to sell 4 packages, they should have to have a blurb on why they are doing it and each investor should have the knowledge before they invest on what the horse plans to play.

JP--

I think I agree with everything that you say; it's just that if a trusted person were to say "look, at the table I find Twitter to be a distraction, so I'll update once a day instead of at the table," I wouldn't really think there's anything wrong with that.

My biggest worry with Twitter isn't that I'll give away strategic information, it's that I'll miss out on information at the table because I'm busy Tweeting. This is more an issue at the WSOP, where your opponents tend to experience more mood swings, and where they tend to be less sophisticated.

I've always provided lots of updates at live events, and agree that it's a great thing to do, and should be standard.

All my best,

--Nate

As usual, honesty and straightforwardness go a long way. Nobody will blame you for skipping a medium-value tournament for a high-value one, and everyone should want you to not play if you're completely drained or sick. The key is to predict as accurately as possible the chances of these things' happening, set your price accordingly, and communicate frequently during the tournament series.

--Nate

I have no problem with that at all. I feel like updates every 2 levels during the breaks would be perfectly adequate.

ya absolutely. no one is asking for updates every time a significant pot happens. thats great, but not really needed. Just updating every 2 hours or w/e at breaks is more than enough for the backer to have a good sweat and keep in touch with the player. It also makes the player more accountable for their actions, and keeps a backer feeling safer that they know for sure the player is playing.

All of the info is great in this thread, and I'm glad someone made it. I definitely think it should be mandatory to update at the very very minimum at the end of the day, if not during breaks via twitter/fb. I also agree with pics of receipts cuz they are not very hard to do. These things should be implied to the players when people are investing 10s of thousands of dollars into them.

i think you understand what i said in my post, but either you are kinda responding to something else, or maybe i am a bit confused about your post and what it exactly is in response too.


I think the main thing i was getting at is people kinda making 1 package of great mtts, then one that "hey, maybe it will sell...its still decent value i guess", and when that one sells, making another with some pretty meh mtts overall, and lets say that one sells, making another etc etc


kinda sucks for investors of the first one cause its gonna effect the value of the first one for many many reasons.


I just think if a person is going to sell multiple packages, they need to state that right away in the first thread they make thus allowing people to invest accordingly. I am also not saying if a person told me he is gonna make 2 packages, i just wouldnt ever invest. its just another thing to think about really.

hopefully we can have a bit more discussion if theres more needed, and then bump this a lot when people are starting to post wsop packages.

i think the closer we get to the WSOP, the more people will be posting. i asked the mods to sticky this thread, so hopefully we dont have to keep bumping it over and over

updates are nice, but don't think updates should be expected or mandatory. I think people should post the final result though. Some people don't care about updating and just want to play their game and focus and not worry about things. Losing a big pot and updating twitter can make someone start forcing things or playing differently because they want a new update. I do think it is nice when people give periodic updates/ maybe let investors know if they make day 2 or 3 ect..

updates should be 100% mandatory and its not close. (would write more, but meh)

what exactly is difficult about getting up at a break, pulling out your phone, and texting your chip count to your twitter? if a player isn't willing to do this then they really shouldnt be invested in