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FossilMan 2015 Investment Offer FossilMan 2015 Investment Offer

02-04-2015 , 03:09 PM
I don't mean this with any disrespect but I don't understand why its so hard to do things like everyone else in the MP or why you refuse to. Map out your schedule or events you would like to play at a given stop. Put up a package/thread for events you would like to sell with MU that you think is fair. Rinse repeat for places and events you are going to. Its pretty simple and not that much hassle imo.
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02-04-2015 , 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg (FossilMan)
It is quite standard in long-term live backing for the investor and player to split the profits equally, with the investor paying the expenses along with the buyins. My package only gives me 40%, and I cover all the expenses. The downside compared to the standard arrangement is that this ends with the year, and if we are behind, I owe no makeup.
This is why people are coming in here and discussing the value of your offer. The way you speak about this you're being either unintentionally naive or purposefully misleading when you make statements like this. You try to say it's "standard" to split 50/50 to increase the attractiveness of your "only" 60/40 offer, but it's simply not the case. And the lack of makeup is a huge part of the problem.

It would have been infinitely better if you had plainly put the offer out there without justification and let the open market decide rather than make multiple statements throughout this thread claiming so much value in your playing time, travel expenses, incentive not to lose, multiple events, etc. All of those things are ldo for ANYONE selling, so it's pretty disingenuous to use to them to prove you should get 40% of profits.

Better yet, why wouldn't you show full financial numbers, graphs, tourney buy-ins, cash game results, etc. if you felt the need to justify your offer?
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02-04-2015 , 09:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg (FossilMan)
Why is everybody so fixated on the term "markup"? The package I am offering has nothing to do with markup, but is using a completely different method. There is no reasonable, legitimate way to compare the two. Think of the investment world, and money managers. Some of them charge a flat fee to manage your money, and they get paid the same win or lose. Others get a percentage of your profit, but nothing if they break even or lose money for you. If the first guy charges $500/year, and the second charges 5% of the upside, which is the better deal? There is no way to tell! You can pick one as better than the other, but to do so you have to take into account how much you are investing, and a range of expected results.
People are fixated on markup because that is the standard way that the vast majority of sellers in MP quantify the premium a buyer pays for the sellers' action. You instead quantify that premium by taking 40% of the profits off the top, which is non-standard and makes investors work harder to estimate the edge in their investment.

I think this is more similar to point spreads vs. money lines as a way to quantify one sports team's edge over another's. Just because there's no simple way to map X% markup over N events to Y% profit taken off the top over N events (like one can map -4 spread in the NFL to -200 ML or whatever by looking it up on a table), doesn't mean that X and Y are not comparable.
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02-08-2015 , 09:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg (FossilMan)
Why is everybody so fixated on the term "markup"?


Also, I am getting tired of people coming into this thread, and espousing their opinion as to the merits of this investment. I do not recall seeing that very often in any other threads, and do not feel it is appropriate. It is quite standard in long-term live backing for the investor and player to split the profits equally, with the investor paying the expenses along with the buyins. My package only gives me 40%, and I cover all the expenses. The downside compared to the standard arrangement is that this ends with the year, and if we are behind, I owe no makeup. To be honest, I wouldn't mind a more traditional deal, with investors paying expenses and me getting half the profit. But given that there are going to be 25-35 investors, it's not as if they are going to all want to commit to chipping in more funds if that became necessary. So, in exchange for fixing the amount invested, for getting less than half, and for paying expenses, they gave up the make-up at the end of the year.

Not sure why some people think this is a horrible deal at all. My best guess is that investors here are fixated on the markup method, and for reasons of fear of the unfamiliar or whatever they immediately have a bad feeling about anything else. But when it comes to pop psychology, I'm admittedly weak.

Thanks, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
What we can conclude:

OP won $5 million in the main event 11 years ago and that money is now gone.

OP uses "my wife" excuse as a way to justify "his" reasons, methods to raise required capital.

OP become irritated when others "question" his reasoning. How dare they!!!! Idiots who challenge a former WSOP Main event winner!!!!
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02-11-2015 , 03:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcc3504
I don't mean this with any disrespect but I don't understand why its so hard to do things like everyone else in the MP or why you refuse to. Map out your schedule or events you would like to play at a given stop. Put up a package/thread for events you would like to sell with MU that you think is fair. Rinse repeat for places and events you are going to. Its pretty simple and not that much hassle imo.
Came here to post this. Why are you complicating everything, just sell action for each stop.

Also you don't have to make up a story as to why you are selling, because your wife made you... GL THO
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02-11-2015 , 04:26 AM
I tend to agree that just listing all of the likely stops and stating that he can skip, change and add comps at his own discretion within certain pre-determined parameters would have been a more palatable package for the majority of investors.

Taking out cash games as well is better IMO, as including them as part of the deal just muddies the waters too much.

A 60/40 Make Up deal by the way is pretty high but I think that a World Champion also with other great results and under less pressure of travel and accommodation expenses can justify this, so I am not going to question the 60/40 aspect.
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02-12-2015 , 02:05 AM
I would rather trust the experience of marketplace veterans (who have heard the wife/bankroll excuse & outrageous markup/staking justification excuse a thousand times) than a main event winner who cannot produce records to refute the haters. You have live mtt, live cash, online mtt or even online cash to show you are +ev ON TOP OF the proposed (convoluted) investment structure. Even that is generous since one should not be allowed to pick and choose. But let's face it, that's impossible. When you factor in travel it'll be less. And here we are..
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02-18-2015 , 11:58 PM
Will take one share. PM sent. Good luck!
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07-13-2016 , 02:26 PM
So what happened , did the investors get anything back?
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07-14-2016 , 10:46 AM
His last update said that he has having a losing year again. He offered this deal the last few years on 2+2 and investors lost money in those years as well. This never seemed like a good investment to me.
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07-16-2016 , 11:24 PM
The Fossilman got 1milli in the main. vamos
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07-16-2016 , 11:34 PM
oops, jinxed it lol
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07-18-2016 , 03:46 PM
Seems he did pretty well at WSOP 2016, would also be pretty interested as to how the bankroll is looking for the year?
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07-18-2016 , 07:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by myeager
Seems he did pretty well at WSOP 2016,
If you say so.

The main was his big score for the year(so far) at a 39k profit pre taxes.

I don't think his investors are jumping for joy.

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07-19-2016 , 10:30 PM
Maybe not jumping for joy but at least they get to sweat a legend.
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