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Old 05-19-2017, 03:36 AM   #26
EZgameZ
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Re: Allen Kessler WSOP package. Read carefully.

There are 7 10ks in your package. Of which you will play all since they're obviously a priority as you stated.

"I may skip some noon events that are same day as $10k championships."

You then say.

"The total is over $150k in buyins but based on past experience should be around $100k"

So you basically get to charge 1.2 on 70k worth of incredibly tough fields in which no one is even sure you're +EV in, never mind after taxes. After all this , you have to make sure theres room for profit for any potential investor, common practice is to usually get close to offering investors about 50% of the roi so you would need to have an ROI of 40% in the 10ks which is just LOL. Curious to know what you think your ROI is in these 7 tournaments and happy to sell you some side action on condition you play all 7.

Also check my history , probably top 2-3 largest investor on the site the last year and invest heavily off site. So if you think I'm trolling, well ERP DERP.
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Old 05-19-2017, 03:58 AM   #27
doublejoker
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Re: Allen Kessler WSOP package. Read carefully.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EZgameZ View Post
There are 7 10ks in your package. Of which you will play all since they're obviously a priority as you stated.

"I may skip some noon events that are same day as $10k championships."

You then say.

"The total is over $150k in buyins but based on past experience should be around $100k"

So you basically get to charge 1.2 on 70k worth of incredibly tough fields in which no one is even sure you're +EV in, never mind after taxes. After all this , you have to make sure theres room for profit for any potential investor, common practice is to usually get close to offering investors about 50% of the roi so you would need to have an ROI of 40% in the 10ks which is just LOL. Curious to know what you think your ROI is in these 7 tournaments and happy to sell you some side action on condition you play all 7.

Also check my history , probably top 2-3 largest investor on the site the last year and invest heavily off site. So if you think I'm trolling, well ERP DERP.
Enough already. Last year i played about half the 10ks I listed. I was deep in another event or still in the mornimg event. Most of the nolimit and plo events
Listed are well under true value at 1.2.

There are 4 priority 10ks this year. Plo8 (new event) , omaha 8, stud 8, and Horse. My one second place finish in 10k stud8 covers 27 of these 10ks....
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:01 PM   #28
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Re: Allen Kessler WSOP package. Read carefully.

quick numbers:
70k worth of 10ks: 1.1
10k main: 1.7
20k in other stuff: 1.3

That adds up to 1.2 overall.

I do agree it is better practice to markup each individual event since there will be a significant number of events you don't play. If you played the breakdown listed above, that's a lot worse for the investor than if you played only 4 10k's and 50k in other stuff + main. The actual schedule you play would make a decent difference in what is a fair markup to charge...

As far as providing "enough relevant data", all you've provided is your cashes which anyone could have looked up on Hendon Mob, and that it's "usually around 100k" per year without the 50k PPC. You've cashed for $825k on probably somewhere between $600k and $900k of buy ins.

Everyone here understands that 7 years of WSOP even on a full schedule is maybe like 250 tournaments, many of which have quite large fields. No one is pretending this is an adequate sample to evaluate how you've marked this package up-- maybe you've run quite poorly in bigger spots. However, your failure to provide specific buy in numbers when asked is a definite red flag, and writing it off as "trolls" is either delusion or some sort of defense mechanism.
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Old 05-19-2017, 04:13 PM   #29
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Re: Allen Kessler WSOP package. Read carefully.

That assumes I will play every 10k listed. This has never happened since I've gone to the 1.2 format.
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Old 05-19-2017, 09:01 PM   #30
EZgameZ
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Re: Allen Kessler WSOP package. Read carefully.

What you did in your 2015 package is getting closer to what is reasonable but when you sell a massive package like this with so much variance in ability/field size/buyins, generalizing @ 1.2 is ridiculous.

Anyways , Gl. I hope this discussion has at least shown to the rest of the MP that this isn't an acceptable way of selling action. Both in terms of transparency and structure, and investors, no matter what size, shouldn't be subject to this.

Stuff like this is why the 2p2 MP is basically dust the last year.
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Old 05-19-2017, 09:28 PM   #31
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Re: Allen Kessler WSOP package. Read carefully.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EZgameZ View Post
What you did in your 2015 package is getting closer to what is reasonable but when you sell a massive package like this with so much variance in ability/field size/buyins, generalizing @ 1.2 is ridiculous.

Anyways , Gl. I hope this discussion has at least shown to the rest of the MP that this isn't an acceptable way of selling action. Both in terms of transparency and structure, and investors, no matter what size, shouldn't be subject to this.

Stuff like this is why the 2p2 MP is basically dust the last year.


Ok, for you or anyone else that wants to back with an exact markup per event, I will do the following.

Same package as listed.

$10k main 1.5
All other $10ks 1.1
Over $1500 1.2
$1500 or less 1.3
$50k optional at par should I play.

I will provide an official printout from wsop with exact buyins and cashes.

At the end of wsop you can have either option, whichever has less overall markup.

I hope this settles your concerns.

Thank you for your input.
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Old 05-19-2017, 09:55 PM   #32
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Re: Allen Kessler WSOP package. Read carefully.

would take 5% at 0 mu
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Old 05-22-2017, 05:04 PM   #33
doublejoker
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Re: Allen Kessler WSOP package. Read carefully.

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would take 5% at 0 mu


Whatever i dont sell ill do on my own...
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Old 05-24-2017, 04:07 PM   #34
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Re: Allen Kessler WSOP package. Read carefully.

Do you have a positive ROI in live tournaments?
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Old 05-25-2017, 07:31 PM   #35
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Re: Allen Kessler WSOP package. Read carefully.

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Do you have a positive ROI in live tournaments?


Varies from year to year...
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Old 05-26-2017, 05:13 PM   #36
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Re: Allen Kessler WSOP package. Read carefully.

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Varies from year to year...

Are you serious?
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Old 05-26-2017, 06:58 PM   #37
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Re: Allen Kessler WSOP package. Read carefully.

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Varies from year to year...


How about overall lifetime?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Old 05-30-2017, 01:14 AM   #38
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Re: Allen Kessler WSOP package. Read carefully.

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How about overall lifetime?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If I were a long term loser how would I keep afloat the past 15 years?
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Old 05-30-2017, 02:38 PM   #39
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Re: Allen Kessler WSOP package. Read carefully.

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If I were a long term loser how would I keep afloat the past 15 years?
selling with markup?
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Old 05-30-2017, 05:04 PM   #40
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Re: Allen Kessler WSOP package. Read carefully.

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selling with markup?
Also, lot's of hotel comps
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Old 05-30-2017, 06:17 PM   #41
Dream Crusher
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Re: Allen Kessler WSOP package. Read carefully.

I don't think it's wise to make an investment like this without knowing historical numbers (buyin amounts, ROIs, etc). Still, if this line of questioning isn't coming up in all the other threads then I do feel Allen is being treated unfairly simply because he's a big name and a divisive figure.
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Old 05-30-2017, 06:48 PM   #42
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Re: Allen Kessler WSOP package. Read carefully.

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I don't think it's wise to make an investment like this without knowing historical numbers (buyin amounts, ROIs, etc). Still, if this line of questioning isn't coming up in all the other threads then I do feel Allen is being treated unfairly simply because he's a big name and a divisive figure.
Its not in any other thread like this. Ive cashed for 800k at wsop since 2010 with 5 fts including 50k players championship.

That should be enough info to make a decision.
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Old 05-31-2017, 10:15 AM   #43
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Re: Allen Kessler WSOP package. Read carefully.

https://gyazo.com/efd4ad80bde538dc1fa9030b8548c55b

Sharkscope says markdown is appropriate
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Old 05-31-2017, 01:04 PM   #44
bestindabiz51
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Re: Allen Kessler WSOP package. Read carefully.

lol sharkscope doesnt even have me listed. y dont u guys leave allen alone and troll else where or at least be funny with your trolls ffs
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Old 05-31-2017, 03:58 PM   #45
Two SHAE
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Re: Allen Kessler WSOP package. Read carefully.

I don't think it's unfair to ask questions. Whether or not Allen wants to answer them (clearly he doesn't) is entirely up to him. Not answering them will deter almost everyone from investing. Also, very very few of the posts ITT are trolls.
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Old 05-31-2017, 04:28 PM   #46
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Re: Allen Kessler WSOP package. Read carefully.

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Originally Posted by Two SHAE View Post
I don't think it's unfair to ask questions. Whether or not Allen wants to answer them (clearly he doesn't) is entirely up to him. Not answering them will deter almost everyone from investing. Also, very very few of the posts ITT are trolls.


These trollish posts only appear in my staking threads and I provide way more data than most ...
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Old 05-31-2017, 04:36 PM   #47
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Re: Allen Kessler WSOP package. Read carefully.

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Originally Posted by doublejoker View Post
These trollish posts only appear in my staking threads and I provide way more data than most ...
You're not wrong here, but 3 key points:
1) A lot of the action bought here is bought between friends/acquaintances who have possibly done business before
2) Several of the guys who sell here have good and recent online samples from tournaments, cash games, or both.
3) In general this is a reflection of the shortcomings of this "marketplace" in general. I don't think it's personal. You can't short anyone and not nearly enough information is given in a lot of cases. If I sold here, I'd provide a full audit of all the tournaments I've played for full transparency (in fact I have done this before). However, no one else does that. Whether you've noticed or not, far less good action is available here compared to even a few years ago, because most of the good stuff gets sold privately between friends.
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Old 06-27-2017, 02:17 AM   #48
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Spade Re: Allen Kessler WSOP package. Read carefully.

How we doing Al? This is Your smallest yet most positive investor and I love sweating you. You give a good accounting always of yourself and if the ppl complain about the markup, F em. .. ; 0/ ... any % is better than 0%, Thank you. Now go snap one off..
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Old 07-13-2017, 06:00 PM   #49
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Re: Allen Kessler WSOP package. Read carefully.

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How we doing Al? This is Your smallest yet most positive investor and I love sweating you. You give a good accounting always of yourself and if the ppl complain about the markup, F em. .. ; 0/ ... any % is better than 0%, Thank you. Now go snap one off..
Like most of his packages this was a disaster - will be selling at a premium next year despite being a losing player but ppl will still buy.
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