Quote:
Originally Posted by dark_horse
How large would our stack need to be where an open shove would be inappropriate? How large does it need to be to raise/fold? My theory has always been that it is almost always a mistake to raise/fold in the orange zone.
So if our M were around 8 or 9 I could see this as a very awkward spot.
A lot of this is player dependant. Playing 15-20 Bigs is not an exact science. So let's say that the guys behind you (or at least one of them) was a very good player. In that case I'd be more inclined to shove here up to 20 bigs. Reason is, if they are very good they may 3 bet shove you and put you in an odd spot. Take that play away from them and just shove it yourself.
BUT...let's say all the guys behind are straight fwd/ nitty. You could get away with a standard open at 12bb or more and know exactly where you stand post flop (incidentally, at 12bb even against them Id probably shove...I'd probably just open at 15bb against this type of V).
If it is unknown, I'd make some judgments based on appearance and go one of those routes. At the end of the day, I don't think you can really go wrong by shoving here at 18bb or less. But again, the optimal play should be decided based on an evaluation of the dudes in the chairs to your left.