villain is a fish. What do you think about turn donk bet, if we would be balanced and would be doing the same with the nuts?

PokerStars - $20+$20+$4|60/120 Ante 18 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 58.78 BB (VPIP: 38.46, PFR: 7.69, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 26)
BTN: 122.53 BB (VPIP: 37.25, PFR: 22.45, 3Bet Preflop: 5.00, Hands: 51)
Hero (SB): 42.96 BB
BB: 80.53 BB (VPIP: 22.58, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 31)
UTG: 45.56 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
UTG+1: 97.91 BB (VPIP: 30.80, PFR: 12.73, 3Bet Preflop: 4.55, Hands: 278)
MP: 44.88 BB (VPIP: 19.84, PFR: 9.76, 3Bet Preflop: 6.12, Hands: 126)
MP+1: 28.88 BB (VPIP: 79.17, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 24)
MP+2: 4.79 BB (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 6.25, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 49)

9 players post ante of 0.15 BB, Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.85 BB) Hero has J T

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, CO raises to 3 BB, fold, Hero calls 2.5 BB, fold

Flop: (8.35 BB, 2 players) 5 7 J
Hero checks, CO bets 4.18 BB, Hero calls 4.18 BB

Turn: (16.7 BB, 2 players) 6
Hero bets 7.29 BB, fold

Hero wins 16.7 BB

nh
and yes you're right we'd probably be doing the same with a flush, but the nuts being 89 I would probably check the turn with that hand.

What makes you think that villain won't have a flush?

nothing, but in these kind of spots i assume villain will always barrel his air and nuts flush. I dont expect him to barrel 1pair+ or weak flushes, but i do think, that if i donk ott, hes gonna fold everything except t+ high flushes. What do you think?

Sorry, but I really don't like this donkbet turn. I'd surely check to evaluate after.

I can't argue, since i don't know if it would be profitable in the long therm.

Not saying you should, but if we're going to turn stuff into bluffs here. You're a lot better off using a 5. Or basically, a pair that isn't a J.

agree.

You are fumbling in the dark. Makes close to no sense to lead, check and decide.

Dude I don't care what anyone says your donk bet is great even if Villian has the flush your trying to rep your not loseing much money if he raises you have a easy fold and if he calls you can easily shut down. You played it exactly like a flush and your range is wide in the sb the key card comes up and you lead it's a great bluff I do the same sometimes with paired boards in multiway pots and if called I just shut down. Nice play bro


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I dont mind it. Its hard to continue for him if he doesn't have 2p+.
You have to add some moves to your play to make the SB flat profitable vs a 3x.
I dunno if this is the perfect spot for it but looks fine overall. Decent risk/reward spot.

But... Is it the right spot to turn our value hand into a bluff hand?

I don't think it is. I'm fine having leads in spots where we clearly have a stronger range, but you're not going to convice me that applies here.

Also, not all spades can bet twice, and then if you bet the ones that do, what does that to your checking range? Which hands continue to bluff river? This stuff is hard to figure out when you have a strategy that revolves around working in leads on the 4 card flush board. I think you create a lot of potential to make a mistake by taking this line.

this.

as i said, i'm leading there only with the nuts and a high fd and some random bluffs, which i don't expect to win on showdown... if villain fold in this spot more than 31% of the time, i'm making profit.

and otr i give up my bluffs or bet nuts and a high flush 4value.

You might make money by leading, but your checking range is definitely weaker by working in this lead as a result of leading your strong flushes. You need some hands that can trap and call down vs turn and river bets.

IF and only IF! I wanted to work in this line, I would probably go with something like. Check flopped nutflush(hands with 2 spades which means villain is less likely to have a call down, and then check hands that are pair +As.). This gives you some traps and protects your checking range. Then I'd work in some 40-50% bets with some Naked Ks and my lowest pairs. My Jx would check, and be part of a range that is two pair, flushes etc.

Side note, don't give up every bluff on the river, that makes it very easy for villains decision to be very good in this spot if he folds. It's weird, picking bluffs to go two with I know. Probably give up half-2/3rds of your bluffs here when taking this line.

Brilliant, ty!