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Trouble with AQ? Trouble with AQ?

01-23-2017 , 05:26 AM
25k guaranteed tourney, 8 people left i got the chip lead with over 750k, blunds are high 10-20k on a turbo live tourney.
Im on HJ with AQ off, i raise to 44k, SB flat calls we go hu.
Flop A 10 6 rainbow, he checks and i decided to check it back too, turn brings a 8 still rainbow, he bets 40k i call, river brings a K, he bets 90k, hero?
I know this hand is too difficult to fold, since i checked the flop is very hard he puts me on an ace, and he could be value betting worse Ax, or even have a hand like KQ,KJ or a 10.
I want your thoughs of how i played the hand and what would you do on the river.
Trouble with AQ? Quote
01-23-2017 , 05:43 AM
Suites are really important I think (board and your suits)
Still think we should call.
Just bet flop, then bet turn again and prob river also, why go in FPS mode?
We lose so much value.



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Last edited by OutPlayU27; 01-23-2017 at 05:45 AM. Reason: I can see myself x/b A5 but not this hand .
Trouble with AQ? Quote
01-23-2017 , 06:07 AM
Board was rainbow and i had AQ off suit.
Well i checked the flop because i balanced my range and i was checking most flops and making a delay c bet on the turn with blufs and value hands. So that way i can be tricky and it would be harder to read me.
Anyway, i felt he was really strong so i just called the river even tho i thought of raising the turn. Unfortunetly he had 10-10 and flopped a set so i lost the minimium. I think if i fast play my hand aggresively i could have loss a lot of chips
Trouble with AQ? Quote
01-23-2017 , 06:46 AM
Something that is really important and didn't ask, what was your image and V's ?
What was his stack?



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Trouble with AQ? Quote
01-23-2017 , 09:36 AM
This is completely dependant on his stack size.

However, I would still c-bet this flop a large proportion of the time. I like checking back on a board more like A93 rainbow. As played, I would call both the turn and river. You hand is under-repped and he could be doing this, as you said, with a lot of weaker AX hands.
Trouble with AQ? Quote
01-23-2017 , 03:49 PM
This is the perfect line for the way the hand actually played out. On a results-oriented analysis, your passivity on the flop didn't hurt you and probably saved you a lot of money. Anyone leading out with TP/GK on the flop vs. a concealed set is at risk of losing a lot more chips before the hand is done ... with Villain enjoying lots of different ways to get paid.

The catch, of course, is that flop passivity can blow up on you in lots of other scenarios. Failing to claim leadership early, pricing out draws, etc. can result in paying off the darnedest hands ... or being faced with difficult and exasperating river folds.

In terms of what's the best overall line in such a situation, we're back at "it depends," aren't we?
Trouble with AQ? Quote
01-26-2017 , 01:42 AM
srsly?
Trouble with AQ? Quote
01-26-2017 , 09:45 AM
I think against some opponents you played that perfectly.

I think against some opponents you bet the flop, and then proceed to other streets based on villains actions..

What stack size does villain have where he is just flatting a raise in the HJ with TT in the SB? Depending on his stack size, that alone would set some kind of alarms off in my head, and if I know hes a good player, I would easily check back the flop to under-rep, induce bluffs, and to make decision making a whole lot easier..

How is the BB? Is he nitty or does he defend wide?

As played, I mean, you lost the bare minimum at a time where you could have lost a great deal, not to mention at a critical point of the tourney. Villain probably tilted a little from all the lost value. So I commend the play.
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01-27-2017 , 08:37 PM
I prefer a cbet on the flop. I don't like giving free cards to gutter draws.

As played I would call. I would expect to get just two streets of value at most anyway and your hand looks like JJ-KK or some XT. So he can easily be betting a worse Ax.

Its not clear to me that you would lose more if you lead the flop. I usually check back the turn in this spot to induce river bluffs or even value bets from worse A's. Doing it this way it still looks like we may not have an A but we clear out hands that can get lucky with a free turn card. And if villain c/r's the flop its a fairly easy board to get away from.
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01-27-2017 , 09:28 PM
If you don't cbet the flop it should be a felony to find a fold on this runout (or pretty much any runout). I'm not saying you always need to cbet, but if you don't the only way to butcher the hand is to then somehow fold your TPTK.
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01-29-2017 , 08:58 AM
Chk fine, cbet fine, both in wide use
Can't chk flop and fold river tho
I prefer cbet here because your sizing can be small yet still deny correct odds to the paint (gutshot) and weaker Ax hands in V defend range. And it becomes super useful to have a smaller value cbet size in later mtt stages if you can get this to showdown. Every time you raise or 3! pre and brick the flop in future, a small cbet should fold out weaker defends a high % when you're stealing and restealing.

So cbet AKx to ATx more often than you might check back an A-rag-rag rainbow.
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01-29-2017 , 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsilver
it becomes super useful to have a smaller value cbet size in later mtt stages if you can get this to showdown. Every time you raise or 3! pre and brick the flop in future, a small cbet should fold out weaker defends a high % when you're stealing and restealing.
This is a truly excellent insight. We treat too many of these hands as existing in isolation. They also help set our image for later in a tournament.
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