Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Tough decision at final table! Tough decision at final table!

07-18-2017 , 04:39 PM
Buyin: $25+2

Last night I final tabled an event and for the most part won pots by raising and taking the blinds or by 3 bet shoving with the top of my range with no calls. I end up building a stack to around 40BB before I got in this hand 6 handed. At this time I am 1st in chips but everyone else is within 20-60k of my stack.

blinds are : 1000 ante 2500-5000

Hero: raises utg to 12,500 w/AKo

Villain: calls Out of BB

Flop: K J 8 with 2 hearts

Hero: bets 22,675

Villain: raises to 59,000

6 handed with AK what was the proper line I'm suppose to take here?

*will post results after feedback

Thanks

Last edited by mpfj2000; 07-18-2017 at 04:44 PM. Reason: Post buyin amount
Tough decision at final table! Quote
07-18-2017 , 06:19 PM
Okay, so you have around 200k. What does villain have?

Probably just flatting and calling down.
Tough decision at final table! Quote
07-18-2017 , 06:52 PM
Villain has about 190-195k


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Tough decision at final table! Quote
07-18-2017 , 08:37 PM
suits are pretty important esp for future streets. call now though.
Tough decision at final table! Quote
07-19-2017 , 12:52 AM
Hero: had A♣️K♠️

Flop was K❤️ J❤️ 8 ♠️
Tough decision at final table! Quote
07-19-2017 , 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by persianpunisher
Okay, so you have around 200k. What does villain have?

Probably just flatting and calling down.


After the raise on the flop

Hero: calls and has approximately has 100k remaining

Turn came a 7♦️

Villain: goes all in.

Board is as such K♥️J♥️8♠️7♦️

What is next?
Should hero have folded on flop or proceed with going Allin with his AK? At this point it was for hero's tournament life.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Tough decision at final table! Quote
07-19-2017 , 01:06 PM
no reads or information whatsoever on villain? Against some players it is a trivial call, against some a trivial flop fold.

payouts are also important.
Tough decision at final table! Quote
07-19-2017 , 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Aces 518
no reads or information whatsoever on villain? Against some players it is a trivial call, against some a trivial flop fold.

payouts are also important.


No much info on villain besides a poor sharkscope and watching him play at other table for about an hour looks like a station.

Payouts were close to this in my memory.

1st $1152
2nd $760
3rd $560
4th $494
5th $310
6th $258


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Tough decision at final table! Quote
07-21-2017 , 12:42 PM
I think you get it in there with Top Top and live with the results as he is check raising all weaker Kings and maybe even all second pairs also some 2 pair hands and sets but that's the game! What else are you expecting to flop with AKo!
Tough decision at final table! Quote
07-22-2017 , 11:51 AM
I would call flop and call the shove on the turn
Tough decision at final table! Quote
07-24-2017 , 09:52 PM
Raising into chip leader as a bluff isn't generally a good idea, but what's your image? Have you been c-betting a lot? Have you been open raising a lot? How likely is it that villain thinks you are just c-betting with A-Q or a medium pair and he's going to call you out with KQ or K-10? Has Villain been aggressive in these kinds of spots out of position? These are the kinds of reads that matter here. In a vacuum, I probably call and see on turn whether villain really has a set or K-J and will barrel there.
Tough decision at final table! Quote
07-25-2017 , 04:02 PM
With that payout structure, there is a ton of ICM value at stake here and i'm not excited to bust in 6th, so there is some merit to playing cautiously.

That said, unless V is a NIT or only C/R's with the nuts, i'm not folding to that flop raise. If V has shown he will frequently go for it with a draw or is a loose player, then I flat the raise and bomb it on turns that the flush bricks.

Do you have any HUD data on V that would help analyze?
Tough decision at final table! Quote
07-26-2017 , 11:17 AM
How wide do you think V is defending his BB? Any suited hand? Have you seen him being capable of x/r flush/straight draws?

Lets count his x/r range. He could x/r KJ(6), J8(9), K8(6), JJ(3) and 88(3) for value(27). He could x/r AhQx(4), QT(12), T9(8), flush draws(if he defends all his suited hands)(54) as a semi bluff(78). We have to remove 2 hands (QThh and T9hh) from his semi bluffing range because we don't want to count them twice(76).

So you can already see that he could have a lot of bluffs in his range. But the question is. Would he use them to x/r? If he can than I would jam on this wet flop. You are favorite with your top pair against draws. Except vs open ended straight flush draws. However you still have 40% equity vs those hands.

Being up against sets would suck but you still have a chance to backdoor into a straight and less likely a full house. Anyway if you give him a range of 103 hands to x/r with. A set(6) would just be a cooler.

Last edited by WorldResident; 07-26-2017 at 11:24 AM.
Tough decision at final table! Quote
07-28-2017 , 04:58 PM
without having reads on V, this is quite speculative.. lets start from beginning... you have AK UTG and raise 2.5x... standard i guess.. i prefer 3x or maybe even slightly higher considering you have a TOP-4 hand... anyway, as played, cool... now he flats his BB which also is pretty standard considering nowadays many more players than in prior times defend fairly wide.... flop comes down and now here's where some info is missing... if he is BB then he has to act before you.... which means he must have checked even though you dont call it out.. you then bet 22 and he check raises you.. to me, the fact that its a check raise is rather important cuz at these low level buy-in tournies, check raise bluffing is REALLY rare.. players just arent skilled enough to know when/if to do it.. i believe he has a hand that HE thinks has you beat... so lets look back, what could that hand be? i have it as only bottom set (he surely would have raised pre with JJ or KK), or exactly KJ... now, he might not think he already has you beat, but thinks he WILL if he catches the nut or second-nut flush draw... the question is, do you think he's aggressive enough type of player to check-raise with only a stone cold draw? so, if he has a big flush draw, then you are at least temporarily ahead... if he has 88 or KJ, you are significantly behind ... with the fact that the stacks are so close, and the payoff ladder is so top-heavily, AND he check-raised you, i probably let it go... in any case, for me personally, its either JAM or FOLD... i'd never simply call in this spot....
Tough decision at final table! Quote
07-29-2017 , 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpfj2000
No much info on villain besides a poor sharkscope and watching him play at other table for about an hour looks like a station.

Payouts were close to this in my memory.

1st $1152
2nd $760
3rd $560
4th $494
5th $310
6th $258
Hate to fold AK and know an hours play isn't much but it's all we have to go on. If he seemed to be a station he probably wouldn't take an aggro line with you unless he had it. Probably wanted to protect his 2 pairs or set. I would hate to get KO in 6th when I'm chip leading (with the villain) and I would reluctantly fold and live to fight another hand. TP top kicker is just TP TK
Tough decision at final table! Quote
07-29-2017 , 01:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starpoker
With that payout structure, there is a ton of ICM value at stake here and i'm not excited to bust in 6th, so there is some merit to playing cautiously.



That said, unless V is a NIT or only C/R's with the nuts, i'm not folding to that flop raise. If V has shown he will frequently go for it with a draw or is a loose player, then I flat the raise and bomb it on turns that the flush bricks.



Do you have any HUD data on V that would help analyze?


Unfortunately I have a subscription with sharkscope that doesn't work with ACR because for some reason the hand history keeps giving an error on that site. I think it's the software for a Mac on Acr that is terrible. But with this error I can't use my HUD. Very frustrating but I prefer to not use a HUD in tourneys anyway because I prefer to use my instinctive reads and don't want to get used to using a HUD as a crutch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Tough decision at final table! Quote
07-29-2017 , 01:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Slip
without having reads on V, this is quite speculative.. lets start from beginning... you have AK UTG and raise 2.5x... standard i guess.. i prefer 3x or maybe even slightly higher considering you have a TOP-4 hand... anyway, as played, cool... now he flats his BB which also is pretty standard considering nowadays many more players than in prior times defend fairly wide.... flop comes down and now here's where some info is missing... if he is BB then he has to act before you.... which means he must have checked even though you dont call it out.. you then bet 22 and he check raises you.. to me, the fact that its a check raise is rather important cuz at these low level buy-in tournies, check raise bluffing is REALLY rare.. players just arent skilled enough to know when/if to do it.. i believe he has a hand that HE thinks has you beat... so lets look back, what could that hand be? i have it as only bottom set (he surely would have raised pre with JJ or KK), or exactly KJ... now, he might not think he already has you beat, but thinks he WILL if he catches the nut or second-nut flush draw... the question is, do you think he's aggressive enough type of player to check-raise with only a stone cold draw? so, if he has a big flush draw, then you are at least temporarily ahead... if he has 88 or KJ, you are significantly behind ... with the fact that the stacks are so close, and the payoff ladder is so top-heavily, AND he check-raised you, i probably let it go... in any case, for me personally, its either JAM or FOLD... i'd never simply call in this spot....


He did check and then raise my 22k bet. I made the mistake of calling his raise rather than jammming or folding on flop. Then had to make another tough decision with a good percentage of my stake in the middle already.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Tough decision at final table! Quote
07-29-2017 , 03:56 PM
The handed finished as such:

After villain check raised the flop to 59k

Hero: called the check raise

Villain: shoved on the turn for about 135k

Hero: called leaving roughly 10-25k remaining in his stack.

Villain: turns over KJo

Hero: gets no help on river and then gets knocked next hand.

After analyzing the situation later.

I have always been a player that can put players on hands pretty well. Just recently rather than putting players on exact hands and making a decision from there I have moved to range building and making decisions about other players range in comparison to my hand range. So normally it would be a standard fold for me to the villain. But adding this new dynamic of range building had me in limbo about the decision I was suppose to make also thinking relatively about ICM also.

Thank y'all for the feedback.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Tough decision at final table! Quote
07-31-2017 , 06:07 AM
Pretty unhappy about this spot. Everything sucks, but this is a good combo of AK to call off with.
Tough decision at final table! Quote
08-01-2017 , 08:58 AM
Next time only call this if you think villain is a donk.
Tough decision at final table! Quote
08-02-2017 , 07:03 PM
this all around sticky...I think you can maybe make a case for folding to flop raise if you feel you have a def advantage or live read on other players and are comfortable playing with an akward to short stack.... but I think its better to just GII with top top and hope for the best!
Tough decision at final table! Quote

      
m