Tilt 50/50...so I read the HS forums about not having a 3 bet range in certain spots - MTT Poker Strategy

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Tilt 50/50...so I read the HS forums about not having a 3 bet range in certain spots

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08-30-2010 , 10:55 PM

ssnyc

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unconventional but ok?

Full Tilt Poker The Fifty-Fifty No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t40/t80 Blinds - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

citizenq (BTN): t3815 47.69 BBs
chriselkins (SB): t3145 39.31 BBs
mach java (BB): t1693 21.16 BBs
Goldeneye7 (UTG): t2730 34.12 BBs
Hero (UTG+1): t6235 77.94 BBs
CaseyCoughlan (UTG+2): t3330 41.62 BBs
McGobbler (MP1): t2895 36.19 BBs
jse81 (MP2): t9659 120.74 BBs
de la fold (CO): t5609 70.11 BBs

Pre Flop: (t120) Hero is UTG+1 with K

Goldeneye7 raises to t200, Hero calls t200, 4 folds, citizenq calls t200, 1 fold, mach java raises to t1693 all in, Goldeneye7 raises to t2730 all in, Hero raises to t6235 all in,

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08-30-2010 , 11:04 PM

Jiggymike

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What else would you do? I agree with pretty much never 3betting pre from UTG+1 pre ante.

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08-30-2010 , 11:05 PM

mullen

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I think the initial flat is cool, I'm assuming you know everything is standard after that

3betting looks insanely strong (and the OR only has 35 BBs) so I think flatting your entire range is fine here

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08-30-2010 , 11:09 PM

Rip_AA

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I can't find anything wrong with it. yay!

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08-30-2010 , 11:10 PM

ssnyc

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yeah all questions are on the flat obv...the rest is yawn ABC

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08-30-2010 , 11:14 PM

benza13

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not that its a huge factor since you are utg and utg+1 and he wont squeeze as much, but the BB's stack makes the flat even sexier

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08-31-2010 , 01:03 AM

isuxatpokerbad

2015 WSOP ME Champ

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 7,629

either or, this isnt really a high stakes MTT tho so you dont really have to take their advice in these tourneys in spots like this. Just be prepared to fold it post, which can be really hard to do knowing your hand is underrepped

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08-31-2010 , 03:21 AM

Parts Unknown

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Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 3,662

Quote:

Originally Posted by isuxatpokerbad

yah I mean those guys are talking aboing against other regs where you are going to have to balance ranges and that kind of thing so your entire 3b range isn't value hands making it super easy to play against your 3b both pre and post. Flatting here just invites more hands into the pot and making post flop much more difficult for you hand.

And I think what you are thinking of is when effetive stacks are much deeper than 30-40bb. Like 80bb deep kind of thing pre ante.

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08-31-2010 , 04:13 AM

smaug8821

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Parts Unknown

This was basically what I was thinking in this hand. In a tourny like this you're just inviting clowns to flat you with all sorts of **** and make it awkward post. Given stacks at the table I guess you aren't really folding post to a lot of them though. Weird spot imo given you're pretty much announcing a monster when you 3bet him, and might be losing value.

Interested to hear what other people think.

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08-31-2010 , 04:16 AM

#10

rmthawk64

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But those random clowns hooding us off with Q6s and **** are the same ones that will be stacking off with one pair hands to us post!

I like the flat here, honestly.

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08-31-2010 , 04:26 AM

#11

smaug8821

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rmthawk64

But those random clowns hooding us off with Q6s and **** are the same ones that will be stacking off with one pair hands to us post!

I like the flat here, honestly.

Truth. You're never folding to someone who has 35bb pre anyways, so if they hit a set or something it really makes no difference in a pot this big.

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08-31-2010 , 04:50 AM

#12

gostatego

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flatting is fine and so is 3 betting. kind of depends on how many monkeys are at the table

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08-31-2010 , 08:02 AM

#13

daviid

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Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,639

nh, no doubt about that.

did u see that BB was short or would u have flatted as well here if this is was the 4th hand of the tourney?

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08-31-2010 , 10:30 AM

#14

jon_midas

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Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,085

I think flatting here is more of the standard in 2010, whereas 3betting is the exception. Maybe its a leak in my game but I flat here 100% of the time.

ssnyc 29,999 posts woot!

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08-31-2010 , 10:59 AM

#15

relderretep

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jon_midas

I think flatting here is more of the standard in 2010, whereas 3betting is the exception. Maybe its a leak in my game but I flat here 100% of the time.

ssnyc 29,999 posts woot!

I think I wouldnt flat this vs a random in a 55fo, only vs a solid player.

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08-31-2010 , 11:02 AM

#16

XXsooted

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I still prefer 3-betting against randoms/non-thinking players, call me old-fashioned

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08-31-2010 , 12:43 PM

#17

rmthawk64

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jon_midas

I think flatting here is more of the standard in 2010, whereas 3betting is the exception. Maybe its a leak in my game but I flat here 100% of the time.

ssnyc 29,999 posts woot!

yea, this. It's completely fine not to have a 3b range in this particular spot. Even awful players are going to know you have a very big hand if you 3b them in these position, and to top it off (maybe it's just me?) but people in midstakes are becoming a lot more squeeze happy than they've ever been in the past (right?).

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08-31-2010 , 01:46 PM

#18

Chuck Bass

World's Most Interesting Procrastinator

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 9,480

Pro advice:

Spoiler:

Therefore if villain is a reg please include it in the OP. Your line looks standard against a reg though.

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08-31-2010 , 02:09 PM

#19

Jiggymike

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I think it's about deception/underrepping your hand more than balance. Even mediocre randoms should know something is up when you 3bet them UTG+1. Then again, it's amazing how often they will stack off with like AT on a Txx board in a 3bet pot, so maybe it's fine to just 3ball it up.

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08-31-2010 , 02:13 PM

#20

marek_heinz

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I mean, this is pretty surprising to me, I'd need a lot of dynamics or stacksize anomaly to have a 3betting range FR UTG+1 vs. UTG open. Its not only about UTG you know, you remove so many hands you dominate which people behind you would play or even 3bet themself (TT-JJ, AJ,AQ)

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08-31-2010 , 04:07 PM

#21

stokkbroker

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Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 238

nh imo

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08-31-2010 , 05:42 PM

#22

shipontilt

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Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 12,209

this is not about balancing against randoms/bad players at all, even the lowest level thinkers are cognizant enough to realize that a utg raise and utg+1 3bet is srsbusinezz. jiggymike and marek sum up the rest of my thoughts pretty nicely.

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08-31-2010 , 05:42 PM

#23

leviathan74

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Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 3,423

To put it in simplistic terms, you 3-bet if you know that someone's going to call, you flat if you don't. In other words it depends on what you feel about the players. Try 3-betting some times, see if that works. If people fold, try some light 3-betting, try some flatting . If they call, keep on rocking.

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