Blinds 125/250/30
$35 MTT, 6-max, 8 players left, 5 places pay
No reads on CO
CO ( 10,657 )
BTN ( 14,598 ) (Hero)
SB ( 9,690 )
BB ( 34,589 )
Dealt to hero 8c 8d
CO raises to 500, hero calls, SB calls, BB calls
Flop 7c, 2d, 6c
Check, check, hero bets 1,060, fold, fold, CO raises to 3250, Hero ???

Would have this in a 3b range pre, ~t1250..Our preflat range wants smaller sizing here when checked to, so would be ~1/3ish pot..calling the raise now

Would b/f as played, doesn't look like a juicy spot
Sizing is ok 4 way imo

Ya, don't think it makes that much of a difference, just at this depth, our flat range pre, should be quite narrow, where we have 77, 66, prob some smaller pairs, but most of our cc hands are in a 3b pre camp. If flatting more suited bways pre, for whatever reason, I think we want smaller sizing as well. So, I guess our otf bet freq is high compared to our range, but our overall flatting range should be ext narrow imo.
What does 4way matter in this instance?

I thought this hand was a little too weak to gii with and didn't want to 3b/fold. I have position and, with these stacks, I thought that I should be flatting suited broadways and some unsuited high card hands.

It seems like I should usually be betting when checked to, and I thought the c/r looked like he didn't believe I really had anything.

^ think 88 is fine as a flat, prob right on cusp to lin 3b range..but I think flatting the hands you mentioned, overall, means we are prob not 3b enough 4-handed, and lose too much value pre. If we are considering a polar 3b pre-range, again, we miss too much value from the bottom portion of a std ~lin range. Just cause we 3b/f in some instances (depending), doesn't mean our initial 3b wasn't the most +ev play.

3b pre and the hand plays out much different

as played i proly sigh fold, pretty sure hes cbetting worse pairs 4 ways, this is usually a big hand or draw otf.. id say its a set, v very unlikely to be bluffing here

edit - just reread we are 8 left, and close to $, didn't realize when I originally posted, and my reply was mainly aimed toward a std 4-handed spot w no reads, etc.

W/o reposting everything, would sigh fold here as well, think our call is ~marginally +ev, but given chip/$ implications, would lean toward folding.

I actually folded, but thought afterwards that maybe he had missed and thought I was FOS. Kind of strange he didn't cbet this flop though, which might mean he had a draw or big hand.

I tend to have a polarized 3-bet range and don't 3b/fold value hands much. I also like to call with position. Maybe this is not correct.

I think this is a great hand to include in your overal 3b range as we are in position, if we dont include this as part of our value 3b range I think we end up with a 3b range that is too strong and thus suboptimal

We can include as many weaker hands to 3b/fold as we want, so I don't see how not including this makes our 3b range strong.

This doesn't really compute with me. Having the problem of a value heavy range isn't one that is too dificult to solve. You simply bluff more. A hand like 88 is too strong to be bluffing with and too weak to 3bet for value.

co is opening 5 handed so should have a wide enough range to 3b for value

3b/fold or 3b/gii? I don't like to 3b/fold value hands, although it isn't bad if you are getting flat called more than 4b.

id 3b/f we have the chips to do so comfortably, i would just snap make it 1400, id say the majority of the time we would win it right there, if he hoods then we can cbet most flops and win a decent % sure we will get 4b a small % of the time but i think its worth the risk

There isn't a right and wrong way, but I generally don't 3b value hands that I can't gii with or flat a 4b with. Then I 3b/fold hands not quite strong enough to call with or if it seems like a good 3b spot. It isn't necessarily bad to 3b a lot more hands than you flat with here, but I flat a lot more than 3b here on the button.

Agree with there isn't a right and wrong way as this is true for much of poker when the difference in a lines Cev is trival or based on ingame dynamics.

The only problem is this flies in the face of fundamental poker therom of putting more money in the pot when we have a good hand (bet/raise) and putting less money in the pot when we have a bad hand (check/fold). If we automated this over a large sample size we will always make money.

We shouldn't be minimising the money in the pot when we have a good hand (near top of our range) just because in a certain spot we can't gii/call vs a 4b which is a relatively rare occurance (you may go a whole tournament without being 4b).

Im not saying your right or wrong, just giving my 2c

Yeh, I may be following theory, which is based on play at high stakes a few years ago when 4-betting was really popular. In a $35 tournament like this you are right that you won't get 4-bet that much.

In this situation, with 8 players left, 5 places pay and relatively flat payouts, I was not interested in building pots due to ICM issues.

No info, 4 way, x/raise on that board, we block some OESD combos... meh, I'd fold.

Calling pre seems standard to me. I'd play it like op

I like the flat pre as well due more to the fact that you're OTB and a 3 bet here 4 handed looks more like you could be FOS. This is a hand you want to see a flop with, so I prefer the flat.

Lol at all the discussion about preflop how are people so clueless in 2016

The postflopspot is very interesting actually cause it seems unlikely hes trapping as second last to act but also doesnt seem lile a spot where people bluff a lot

Im torn between calling and stackong off non flushcompleting non ace turns or just folding

care to elaborate?

My concern was that it seemed like a good spot to c/r bluff, because I am betting almost always, and if I am folding 8s, I am folding almost always.

Pre fine and flop I'd check or bet alot less