I limp the button here. They'll be thinking WTF?.

No way folding is better than shoving, limping might be best

+1 for limping

Between reading this thread and Jonathan Little's book, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna start open limping buttons way too much.

Seriously though, I think limping here might be good just for confusion factor. They'll have no idea of your range and you'll probably take down a lot of pots on the flop. Not that I play $55s though, so idk...

open folding seems like the worst option, we have a really sweet hand! limp seems cool, shove is def +ev

I'd just be shoving mostly. 22 bbs ain't that much and you just have to run better
I have 0 problem r/f or open limping here. I prob rf and dare them to shove again on me....
I disagree w your thoughts of having a terrible image here though.
There is no such thing IMO. U have an image and it's up to you to properly adjust your game in the most profitable way.
That's why minraising started right? It's very hard to play against...if u rf again here and they shove then lol fold and do it again next time....I like to keep challenging my opponents to 3b me light...to a certain extend obv
Hopefully u pick up a hand good enough to minraise/call w or else it's not your day.
anything but folding here is fine imo

ebet,

you make decent point about images but I think its fair to say that Chuck's current image is really bad with his stack size. Give him 30bbs where he can 4b with FE and minopening to induce is really profitable and one of my favorite things about having an active image.

if either blind is actually competent they should shove atc when we limp because our range is just so obvious - we would never limp a strong hand with stacks as they are.

If this is true then we should limp big hands. If they're competent they should realize this too and not shove atc.

You can jam unexploitably. So with that in mind, vamos.

btw--henry post more please.

wrong

show the math zeal

well he is right, the term "exploitable" is used in the wrong context a lot on these forums.

I see your point but it could work exactly the opposite in a competent players mind. If you are not limping much at all (maybe you haven't limped once) and then all of the sudden you open limp it will probably throw up some red flags. How many times do you just open jam 22+ BB's when someone limps for the first time and it is not characteristic of them I would guess close to never. Of course if you make this a regular thing it can become exploitable (against competent players). I think those particular situations come up in such low numbers that to range someone there without a great deal of history is going to be near impossible. And in order for the following to hold true "we would never limp a strong hand with stacks as they are." They would have to know that you know that they know type scenario where both players know the competence of the other player.

This is getting a little long but I would also go onto say that you can use limping against a competent player to eventually exploit someone that is likely going to shove on you light for limping, so limping a few times and folding and then limping a few big hands to trap someone into shoving their whole stack on you can also be added to your arsenal.

On a side note and off topic I kind of liked how USCPhildo limped some hands near the bubble of the Main Event so he didn't have to get in a situation with 88 or 99 and AK for his entire stack where he would of had to make that decision had he opened. I think he also mixed in a SC or two (I may be wrong) No one played back at him either and there was a player or two more than capable of doing this.

what is our plan if we limp? I don't have much of a limping range OTB unless I have maniacs in the blinds, so I don't know how I would respond?

no he's wrong, in this context the term is fairly unambiguous - even if the blinds know our exact shoving range and are calling perfectly every time, we still show a profit by shoving this hand. of course, whether that means it's the best play or not is another story, but it is better than folding which is obviously neutral EV.

yeah of course you and henry are totally right, but if we're going to start limping then don't we need to have a balanced limping range? which begs the question do we need to have a limping range at all when we can just have a well-balanced r/f - r/c range? how often are we going to want to limp when we have 20-25bb? it just seems like we have few enough +EV spots with that stack size to then complicate it by having to have a limping range.

the answer to the first part is as you already know it depends on who you are playing against. In a $55 not sure our range needs to be that balanced against randoms.

for the do we need a limping range at all, I don't see it being a disaster and it adds an option to us and gives us a chance to take another approach which may not be standard but can be effective in spots. It's always better to be comfortable with more options in poker instead of just a standard play imo. I know that the majority on 2+2 cringes at open limping but I think having a limping range in some not so standard situations is a good thing to have.

(Everyone saying limp...Agree 100%)

This is the rare instance when you actually limp the button. lol It's the total opposite of what you have been doing the entire tournament like you say. I think it may work out , like a fish who limps a monster.

Zed...vs randoms we don't need a balanced limping range but it seems we have a fairly well set dynamic vs the two villans...It is a game flow adjustment which I don't think enough of us make real time...we don't often have such a specific read/image so the general theme of not having a limping range here is less applicable

limpers, if you had AA here vs opponents who shove over your opens a lot would you really open limp? Really? I think most people who put in any thought will come to the conclusion that your limping range is effectively exactly what you have. And even if you know that you probably still shouldn't limp AA because they're going to jam over your open so much.

stevepa always great posts,

my thinking here is that obviously I am opening the AA if I am getting jammed on a lot when I raise, so I am probably not picking AA as my first hand to limp the BTN with. If I limp with QJ in this example and get jammed on sure I fold. But with those dynamics then yes it is very possible I limp AA the 2nd or 3rd limp on the BTN if I feel I will get jammed on by the blinds that perceive my limp range as weak.

i couldnt imagine if we got called by k2+ in at least 1 spot that it would show much of a profit. this aint bvb

I would never limp Aces with two spewtards in the blinds. AA would definately be like a 2.1x, you want to make it look like you are trying to steal or outplay them. I believe that in this one circumstance the limp with QJ would be effective. They wouldn't really know what to make of it at first and potentially end up just completing and checking it through. Hopefully you can bink on the flop and NH sir.