Big Sunday Tourney - 9 handed blinds 100/200 with 25 ante

Fold

Utg+1 opens to 450 with stack of shortish stack of 3490

fold
fold
fold

Mutt is in middle just calls 450 with stack of 7855

SB folds

To me in BB with 97 and stack of 13199

Flop 4 10 8

I check

Utg+1 bets 900

Mutt in middle folds

Hero raises to 3451 putting V1 all in..

Thoughts??

Not crazy about the defend. Flop is close. He makes largish cbet on a board bad for the preflop ep raiser against loose fish and BB with wider ranges. You are pretty crushed by an overpair or decent draw. Big profit when he folds and you aren't terrible versus his preflop range. So I am not sure.

i prefer just to donk bet this board..u dont have a strong hand enough to either check raise or to check call so i prefer the donk bet option..and also using this line i dont believe that the IR gonna do anything stupid without a hand..especially in a 3way pot..as played i prob just fold against the IR cbet

Don't like the defend much, 97o is gonna play pretty poorly 3way, against utg 17bb stack and reg? flatter. Fold flop, very rarely you have any FE when or c bets biggish on that board and you don't have more than 35% eq almost always.

Maybe better not to view opponents negatively. We don't know what Mutt flat called with and why. We do know OP misplayed the hand, probably at all 3 decision points.

Lol tough but fair.. Wasn't particularly serious about use of word mutt but I gotcha..

Anyway, about the defend part.. There is 1445 in there and I have to call 225 more, closing the action.. Is that really that big of a mistake?? Is there a range that you think is good to defend here or you think all hands should be either fold or reraise?

Once flop comes like this, are we sure that folding is a supremely better choice than setting him in, even without a ton of FE? I'm ~ 32% vs QQ+ and ~45% vs AK, AQ.. There's like 2600ish in the middle and he has 2100ish behind..

I do acknowledge that his range is heavily weighted towards big pairs (QQ+) but it's not like he has to have only QQ+ here either..

So yeah, prob a bit ambitious on this one but that's why I posted it.. didn't really love it at the time but felt like folding flop was kind of weak esp given his stack size..

What I'm really interested in is discussing the merits of defending BB vs these two guys and what defend range should look like?

When he bets more than half pot on a callers' flop like this with that stack, it is likely he has you crushed and is not folding. His UTG opening range is probably strong. Best case is 45% against AK/AQ/AJ without a flush draw, and he may check back or bet smaller with those.

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

990 trials (Exhaustive)

board: t84

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
9c7h	26.87%	266	0
adQd	73.13%	724	0

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

990 trials (Exhaustive)

board: t84

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
9c7h	34.24%	339	0
asts	65.76%	651	0

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

990 trials (Exhaustive)

board: t84

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
9c7h	28.69%	284	0
JsTs	71.31%	706	0

Yeah, I agree.. I was in a few games at the time and clearly could have played this one better..

Anyway, my question was more about what the appropriate range to defend with looks like, if any?

Appreciate your thoughts on that..

The type of hands a solid player might open with from mid position. You could defend with 97s. You can at least call with any pp, most two high cards and decent suited connectors or gappers.

With 97o, you aren't going to get much profit with a pair, a weak draw like this, or bluffing with air. You don't make 2-pair or better that often.

UTG has a strong range and the caller, if he isn't a total Mutt, also has a strong range.

Yep, agree with that too.. Dude that opened had QQ obv.. Thanks for input

I would be pretty concerned about this flop sizing. If he had AQ/AK or some other marginal draw and wanted to gii, he might make it bigger. If he missed, he might check back or cbet/fold smaller. He usually has an overpair, top pair, or a strong draw based on preflop and flop, which are both very strong.

You are in worse shape against some draws than overpairs.

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

990 trials (Exhaustive)

board: t84

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
9c7h	23.23%	230	0
jdqd	76.77%	760	0

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

990 trials (Exhaustive)

board: t84

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
9c7h	17.42%	165	15
jd9d	82.58%	810	15

Betgo wins thread except for his fold pre comments.

Can you explain how the defend is profitable? We only make 2-pair or better 3.5% of the time. How are we going to profitably play a pair or a draw like this against at least one strong range OOP without initiative?

Thrilled about pre?

Hmm... interesting...

I don't mind the call pre but the main reason to call pre is to play hands like this I think.... otherwise, a fold pre may be appropriate. What's 79 off good for??? Nothing, other than fold equity postflop a straight draw semibluff or perhaps hitting a set of 7's or 9's.

I might check jam it and if no bets just take a free card.

If you're putting UTG on QQ you can probably just fold. If you think he might make this play with hands like AK then you might actually get a fold post flop for easy profit with potential of hitting hand

I honestly don't mind the play. Perhaps it is more aggressive than is necessary though.

Sometimes AK, AQ bets smaller... sometimes they bet bigger... it's difficult to say. I like check jamming for initiative reasons...maybe it's wrong though.

One reason for calling is this guy in middle position is often going to fold after the UTG raises pre flop so there is dead money. If middle position raises or goes all in easy fold.

We're not forced into only continuing vs two pair or better. It's fine to fold lots because of the exceptional odds we got pre flop.

I thought that to start with but the call should be a function of effective stack sizes, which I don't think are deep enough in this instance. Don't get me wrong, I am always calling 97o here as it just looks too preeetty.....but I am beginning to doubt whether that is the right play. Great pf calling odds but low implied odds and oop make it close?

Betgo actually right about most of this.. altho id flat pre here closing action