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this might be obvios but im seeing if im right this might be obvios but im seeing if im right

12-04-2014 , 02:28 AM
ok I played this hand yesterday at the WSOPC in north Carolina.
bubble just busted and they were dropping like flies, stacks are very very shallow. At this point I have 24k with blinds 2000- 4000 - 500 we just drew for seats and I end up with 4 huge stacks to my left. i am UTG+1 and i look down to Q 7 i shove i get re raised and even tho hit 7 on the flop his AK cough up to be out. my question is, is that a standard shove or could have i waited to a better spot. or am i just being very result oriented? i struggle a little on spots like this, any thought would be highly appreciated.
this might be obvios but im seeing if im right Quote
12-04-2014 , 05:27 AM
You had 6 BBs so any two cards are good enough to shove. You should have shoved long before getting down to 6 BBs, IMO.
this might be obvios but im seeing if im right Quote
12-06-2014 , 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by putuonak
You had 6 BBs so any two cards are good enough to shove. You should have shoved long before getting down to 6 BBs, IMO.
lol wut... no
this might be obvios but im seeing if im right Quote
12-06-2014 , 05:36 PM
Lol, please do not listen to putuonak's advice. Assuming you are at a 9 handed table, your shoving range in this spot should be 22+, A2s+, A8o+, K8s+, KTo+, Q9s+, QJo, J9s+, T8s+, and 98s.

As for the "you should have shoved long before getting down to 6bbs imo" this is a pretty absurd statement. Who's to say that the previous hand you played before this spot, you didn't lose a big flip against another opponent to knock you down to your 6bb stack?

If you are having problems with proper shoving ranges with 2 to 10bb stacks, I suggest you take some time to study this chart.

http://www.pushfoldcharts.com/fullring/
this might be obvios but im seeing if im right Quote
12-06-2014 , 07:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurt23x

If you are having problems with proper shoving ranges with 2 to 10bb stacks, I suggest you take some time to study this chart.

http://www.pushfoldcharts.com/fullring/
I'm looking at this chart and wondering why for example i can push from UTG at 10BB (with antes) A8s+ and A5s.Isn't A7s better than A5s? Can someone explain it to me?
this might be obvios but im seeing if im right Quote
12-06-2014 , 07:09 PM
With A5s you've straight possibilities. (A to 5)
this might be obvios but im seeing if im right Quote
12-08-2014 , 03:03 PM
thanks for the chart, that helped a lot makes more sense now appreciate it
this might be obvios but im seeing if im right Quote
12-09-2014 , 04:28 PM
I agree w Kurt in that we don't know what precipitated our lowly position of sitting w 6 bigs...however at this point, my central focus wouldn't include my opponents or position (other than to take note when we will be in the blinds) - or really anything besides determining what is the best possible 2 card combo I will have out of what are my "free" hands. Knowing that I have 2 "free" hands total, we can only fold Q7s here if we think it statistically probable that we will get a better hand on the next hand when UTG (we are SO short that we can't even advocate holding tight through the blinds because if we do and get dealt dog-spit cards, we'll have posted 1.5k in antes and 6k as the BB/SB and would be shoving for 16.5k). With this thought process, Q7s to me is a shove and an oh well when it doesn't win. Regardless of how we got to 6BBs, the fact is we are way short and our goals have changed from winning the tournament to simply surviving another orbit and clawing our way back to having a "playing poker" stack again.
this might be obvios but im seeing if im right Quote
12-09-2014 , 04:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Everyday81
I agree w Kurt in that we don't know what precipitated our lowly position of sitting w 6 bigs...however at this point, my central focus wouldn't include my opponents or position (other than to take note when we will be in the blinds) - or really anything besides determining what is the best possible 2 card combo I will have out of what are my "free" hands. Knowing that I have 2 "free" hands total, we can only fold Q7s here if we think it statistically probable that we will get a better hand on the next hand when UTG (we are SO short that we can't even advocate holding tight through the blinds because if we do and get dealt dog-spit cards, we'll have posted 1.5k in antes and 6k as the BB/SB and would be shoving for 16.5k). With this thought process, Q7s to me is a shove and an oh well when it doesn't win. Regardless of how we got to 6BBs, the fact is we are way short and our goals have changed from winning the tournament to simply surviving another orbit and clawing our way back to having a "playing poker" stack again.
this is wrong in multiple ways.

first of all, the only considerations we have are our equity vs potential calling hands, the frequency that we get called, and the pot odds. being in such an early position, chances of one or more people waking up with a hand are high, and Q7s doesn't have good equity vs the kinds of hands that will call.

second of all, even if this "what are the chances of getting a better hand soon?" logic was valid, you would still be wrong. since Q7s is barely above 50% vs a random hand, we have almost a 75% chance of getting something better in the next two hands. and even if we don't, when we are in the BB we will have better pot odds, and therefore not need as good a hand to get it in, especially if we are up against a wider range from a late position or BvB raise.

this is a very easy fold.
this might be obvios but im seeing if im right Quote
12-10-2014 , 12:30 PM
^ ^ All of this is correct.
this might be obvios but im seeing if im right Quote
12-20-2014 , 07:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by intclock
this is wrong in multiple ways.

first of all, the only considerations we have are our equity vs potential calling hands, the frequency that we get called, and the pot odds. being in such an early position, chances of one or more people waking up with a hand are high, and Q7s doesn't have good equity vs the kinds of hands that will call.

second of all, even if this "what are the chances of getting a better hand soon?" logic was valid, you would still be wrong. since Q7s is barely above 50% vs a random hand, we have almost a 75% chance of getting something better in the next two hands. and even if we don't, when we are in the BB we will have better pot odds, and therefore not need as good a hand to get it in, especially if we are up against a wider range from a late position or BvB raise.

this is a very easy fold.

I love this this makes a lot of cense to me... thanks that was very very helpful
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