Anyone have some solid guidelines they follow when it comes to raise sizing pre in live mtts. I tend to 3x at 80+ bbs and lower it to 2.0-2.5 as I get under 80 bbs. I also tend to follow the average stack so if I'm deep in a tourny and say I have 120 bbs, and avg is somehow 40, I play more so toward a 40 bb stack.

I ask bc I've played a few mtts this week at borgata, and it seems like people love 2.5-3.0x when stacks are shallow which I feel is spew and too much. Am I right? I feel that for my play style, I'm opening and never open limping and playing a looser range than most players, I gotta make it small to keep cbet and 2 barreling less damaging if I'm incorrect on a hand. Thanks for any insiteful thoughts

3x 100bb
2.5x 50bb
2.1415x 15bb
Jam below that

There's this thread from a while back:>

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/23...ciated-321928/

Obviously bet sizing has generally moved down over last 5-8 years, and the rationale is often given as the prevalence of 3-bets.

I stick to similar levels to what Old Silver suggested, just so I don't look out of the ordinary, but quite frankly I find a lot of the rationale flimsy.

- "I move down to 2.5BB when antes kick on" Why? One would expect that pot odds become better to come, and now you make them even better by raising less?

- "I like to do 2.2 - 2.3BB when stacks are shorter" Why again? If the rationale is small, then why not min 2BB

Just don't see a lot of good math/game theory on bet sizing; perhaps someone will correct me...

There is no right or wrong answer to this, except you should generally open small with less than 20xBB so as not to be committed for your stack. In this kind of tournament, you can probably open 4xBB early on and it wouldn't be a big mistake.

Just wondering what people thought. I mean i feel 2x-3x late is prolly fine depending on what you are trying to accomplish.

I feel I play pretty aggro and open much wider with a 40-80bb stack compared to the average player. I feel I need to open smaller to keep pots smaller as I need to cbet a lot of flops when up against 1 player. Also I feel opening smaller is important if I'm going to fold to 3bets with the bottom end of my range. Thanks for input in this thread.

I've thought it was kind bad to open to 3x late unless you are really tight and trying to get max value on big hands. I feel you want players out of the blinds to flat as you play against them in position for a sizable pot. I feel if someone feels they have a skill edge on the field, they should be looking to play pots in position against weaker opponents.

depending on all circumstances the open should change what is your accomplishment of doing

Generally people don't 3bet enough or defend wide enough so we want to give ourselves a good price on a steal and come in for a small 2.25x raise when antes are involved.

Yes, in later stages when you can steal. However, it is OK to raise fairly large when the pots are usually multiway.

Generally speaking I 3x untill the blind hits 100/200/25. then I will 2.5x untill it gets up there, like 1k/2k, i will start to 2x it. Some qualifiers: 1)I play almost all turbo's these days. 2) If I feel outclassed or outplayed, I tend to raise larger preflop (and also bet larger in some circumstances) in order to increase variance and diminish the villains skill advantage. 3) If I build a monster stack early I will continue to 3x it much deeper. 4) I try to raise a consistent amount, and not vary my preflop sizing too much because sizing tells. But there is some wisdom in Old Silver's post and Betgo's post about stack sizes.

This is part of my original point. Why not 2x, why not 2.5x? Where's the analysis around this? 2.25 seems to have defaulted to a norm, but I don't see a reason why that amount that's backed by data or game theory or whaterver. Looking for someone to prove me wrong

i would take it one step further and say, in live tournaments 4xBB seems to work much better for me... and yes, once your stack is small, any size that doesnt commit the entire stack is best, unless of course, you prefer to shove

Good evening. Many good things are said already. Personally I like the guy with the 2.1415x sizing the most.

Anyway. I think your opening size should not only be based on stacksizes. I think more important are the people you play against. At the end. Your edge comes from the mistakes other players make.

For example blind versus blind. Some people have the exact same range against different bet sizes 2,5/3/3,5. Just try different bet sizes. See what works for you. It makes you unpredictable. But don't forget to balance your range. Especially when you got to showdown.

he's a fantastic guy for sure

I can run circles round him.

50bb+ where the real poker is played, he makes everyone cry.
Especially you young uns.

👍

This should be easily solved by looking at fold rates over large samples at 2x, 2.5x & 3x in various positions.