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Old 08-25-2010, 08:14 AM   #1
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Live $1K 6max: Btn vs BB, 3bet pot shoved into on river with under-repped hand

Live $1100 6max donkament. fairly tough field for a live event with a lot of onliners (i guess because it's 6max).

Villain has only been at table a couple of orbits, aged around 30, moved with a lot of chips and seems decent going by bet sizing. He's been raising quite a bit in the few orbits at the table, haven't seen any showdowns. These are about our only reads at this stage.

I have been aggro in the few orbits he's been at table, raising a ton of hands on account of the rest of the table being fairly fishy, I probably don't look like an online player to him because i'm older than the typical online player.

Anyway blinds are 100/200, I start the hand with about 13k, he covers by around double.

Folds to me on btn, I have A J , which feels like a monster given the dynamic at the table.

I make my standard raise of 550.

SB folds, BB raises to 1850, i call because i think his range is going to be super wide.

Flop comes:

A K K

BB Checks, Hero Checks ( i figure we're either way ahead or way behind so not a lot of point betting here).

Turn is:

6

BB leads for about 1/3 pot, i think it was something like 1300. Hero thinks for a while and calls.

River is:

2

He jams for 10K effective into 6k pot. Hero....
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Old 08-25-2010, 08:29 AM   #2
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Re: Live $1K 6max: Btn vs BB, 3bet pot shoved into on river with under-repped hand

...pukes.

What was his timing/demeanor on the river jam? (e.g., quietly announcing "all-in" after twenty seconds' deliberation vs. Hellmuthian insta-cram vs. "I shove this in your face, sir" while sliding out enough chips to cover.)

Edit: Given how under-repped your hand is, it's hard to see how he's expecting a call here, like, ever.
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Old 08-25-2010, 08:47 AM   #3
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Re: Live $1K 6max: Btn vs BB, 3bet pot shoved into on river with under-repped hand

I snap fold here barring live reads.
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Old 08-25-2010, 09:18 AM   #4
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Re: Live $1K 6max: Btn vs BB, 3bet pot shoved into on river with under-repped hand

Your hand looks so much like one that could never call a shove. Given you think he's somewhat competent (and so possibly capable of making moves), I'd tank/call.

Then shake my head slowly if he shows me some sort of nutty hand.
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Old 08-25-2010, 10:10 AM   #5
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Re: Live $1K 6max: Btn vs BB, 3bet pot shoved into on river with under-repped hand

I would also fold. Random 30somethings rarely are taking a line like this as a bluff,imo.

But I haven't played too much live so I could be wrong.
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Old 08-25-2010, 10:18 AM   #6
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Re: Live $1K 6max: Btn vs BB, 3bet pot shoved into on river with under-repped hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by zedveron View Post
Live $1100 6max donkament. fairly tough field for a live event with a lot of onliners (i guess because it's 6max).

Villain has only been at table a couple of orbits, aged around 30, moved with a lot of chips and seems decent going by bet sizing. He's been raising quite a bit in the few orbits at the table, haven't seen any showdowns. These are about our only reads at this stage.

I have been aggro in the few orbits he's been at table, raising a ton of hands on account of the rest of the table being fairly fishy, I probably don't look like an online player to him because i'm older than the typical online player.

Anyway blinds are 100/200, I start the hand with about 13k, he covers by around double.

Folds to me on btn, I have A J , which feels like a monster given the dynamic at the table.

I make my standard raise of 550.

SB folds, BB raises to 1850, i call because i think his range is going to be super wide.

Flop comes:

A K K

BB Checks, Hero Checks ( i figure we're either way ahead or way behind so not a lot of point betting here).

Turn is:

6

BB leads for about 1/3 pot, i think it was something like 1300. Hero thinks for a while and calls.

River is:

2

He jams for 10K effective into 6k pot. Hero....
I would much rather bet flop, check behind turn and then see what develops OTR and if we get C/R'd we act accordingly either easily fold or givem the pile based on reads we get in game at that moment....

Either way we get to the same conclusion, I doubt we beat almost any of his value range so we basically have a bluff catcher must fold imo..
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Old 08-25-2010, 10:21 AM   #7
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Re: Live $1K 6max: Btn vs BB, 3bet pot shoved into on river with under-repped hand

Even though you have one of the better hands in your range, this is just never a bluff IMO.
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Old 08-25-2010, 10:21 AM   #8
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Re: Live $1K 6max: Btn vs BB, 3bet pot shoved into on river with under-repped hand

his line looks lolstrong, though the fact that he seems competent makes it less scary than if a fish took this line. still think it's a fold though.

i don't play much live, are people 3betting much at all? i'd just be so surprised if he took this line with some air hand rather than b/b/s or whatever. i don't expect a competent player is really expecting an older player like yourself to fold a decent A here to any bet so is going for max value. or do they? tourney life and all that?

it looks like OTT he thought your range looks weak (because you checked back) so he didn't want to scare you off, so made a small bet. tbh the river bet looks rubbish as a VB or a bluff to me, your hand looks a lot like 88-JJ or Ax, and he shouldn't need to overbet the river to get you off most of that range. but then when you check back flop and only flat a small bet OTT your range looks weak enough that he shouldn't really expect you to call an overbet with worse. guess it all depends on what his perception of you is, and whether you think he expects you to fold a decent Ax.

whatever, i'm just rambling and possibly contradicting myself lol. but i think the main thing is, especially live, people associate having the nuts (or close to it) with going all-in, they don't really consider the SPR. reminds me of a live hand i posted about a year ago where some guy c/c, c/c, openshoved for like 2xpot otr when he got there. they just want to get the maximum in the middle and don't really think about your range. i also doubt they're into NSB-esque overbetting as a bluff very often. so fold.

edit: not sure i should really be making the assumptions in the last paragraph in a $1k, so take it with a pinch of salt.
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Old 08-25-2010, 10:43 AM   #9
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Re: Live $1K 6max: Btn vs BB, 3bet pot shoved into on river with under-repped hand

ppl 3bet heaps live at least in europe lol
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Old 08-25-2010, 10:47 AM   #10
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Re: Live $1K 6max: Btn vs BB, 3bet pot shoved into on river with under-repped hand

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Originally Posted by p3rc4 View Post
ppl 3bet heaps live at least in europe lol
this

against a euro you should 4bet/fistpump pre there and probably snap river
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Old 08-25-2010, 10:54 AM   #11
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Re: Live $1K 6max: Btn vs BB, 3bet pot shoved into on river with under-repped hand

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Old 08-25-2010, 03:22 PM   #12
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Re: Live $1K 6max: Btn vs BB, 3bet pot shoved into on river with under-repped hand

i dunno why ur flatting pre...4bet seems way better...i'd also cib/c the turn ur at ur highest equity vs hand ur behind with second nut FD

as played i'm sure he has worse aces in his range ur not callin for a chop anyway
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Old 08-25-2010, 03:31 PM   #13
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Re: Live $1K 6max: Btn vs BB, 3bet pot shoved into on river with under-repped hand

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Originally Posted by unrealzeal View Post
as played i'm sure he has worse aces in his range ur not callin for a chop anyway
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Old 08-26-2010, 10:59 PM   #14
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Re: Live $1K 6max: Btn vs BB, 3bet pot shoved into on river with under-repped hand

i don't see how 4-betting can be good when we're ahead of his 3-bet range but behind his range for continuing vs a 4-bet. seems to make the actual value of our hand kind of meaningless, and also negates our positional advantage.

anyway results: i tanked for a long time and called, he had 77 ...
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Old 08-26-2010, 11:05 PM   #15
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Re: Live $1K 6max: Btn vs BB, 3bet pot shoved into on river with under-repped hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by zedveron View Post
i don't see how 4-betting can be good when we're ahead of his 3-bet range but behind his range for continuing vs a 4-bet. seems to make the actual value of our hand kind of meaningless, and also negates our positional advantage.

anyway results: i tanked for a long time and called, he had 77 ...
nh wp
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