400 - 800 level, no ante. I'm sitting on 39k in chips, as UTG + 2. Open with KK for 2300 chips. middle position [MP villain] with 50k calls, as does small blind who has 14k, and two stragglers in MP/LP who are inconsequential to the hand. Have only been at this table for two levels, so I don't have a good read on either player. Although, I did see for a short time the SB villain at my prev table and he's pretty straightforward. MP villain likes to show when he gets folds from other players, hasn't shown any bluffs. Consider him standard charity room 'wants to show his cards and complain about hands' type.

Flop comes 3c8h7c. I lead out for 6k given pot size is over 10k. MP Villain smooth calls. Wasn't really expecting that move, but figure he might be on a flush draw. Regret not betting more at that point, when he calls. Other MP/LPs muck. Now SB shoves for the rest of his chips. It's a tough spot chipswise. It would be awful to just call here if MP is on the draw. I want isolation against SB and figure I have the best hand and based on the relatively short stack the SB most likely has a weird combo draw or TPTK with Ac or something. If I just call I am really frozen if MP re-shoves, I would have essentially donated half my stack to the MP villain. So I reshove for my 39k and get insta-called by MP. Not really sure what else I could do with my overpair. The clubs and two cards to a straight really made me feel like I would be the best hand, and based on bet sizing I don't know how there's any fold or call here.

do we have the Kc?

I think it really depends on if you have the Kc as well. If you do, you can shove a lot easier.

If MP is a standard charity tourney player, he may be slow playing a big hand, but it's more likely that he's on a draw and you can get him off of his hand with a shove.

I'm positive I'm never calling here. Given the information you've told, my standard line would be to shove and hope to not get called by MP with a big draw.

I'm not saying it's the be all and end all of our decision. But having the Kc isn't a good thing here and would make it closer to a fold.

Yep...most players seem to get that reasoning wrong. The short version is that when we have the Kc it cuts down on his likely semi bluffing combos and weights his hand to value ones.

there are too many situations where you have 2 outs in this spot.

the smooth call from MP makes a big difference. if MP folded otf, then it's a call against the SB shove and gl.

once MP calls and SB shoves, you have 2 heavily active players in a pot that went 5-way to the flop and often hit someone...hard.

one pair hands are no good here (unless the table is full of booze hounds that shove any pair any draw while screamin 'cmon babee momma needs some new shoooze')

Did not have the Kc. Two red kings.

if this is 5way(?) id b/f smallish prudely usually, since we escape with 85% of our stack here, since that table is a setminers dream. if not, we can be up against a strong draw here, or 2pair who knows, which have a lot equity.

Really? I feel like my hand is under-repped given the 2.9x preflop or whatever. (And extra under-repped because I was first in the pot pre and had a number of callers). Not to mention two clubs and two cards to a straight on the flop. I should bet 4k on this flop and give everyone awesome odds? That's a play I can't make. I'm not looking to escape this hand, I'm looking to get it in on exactly this kind of flop. This might be a big hole in my game, for sure, which is why I asked. I never bet small here. I'd rather check than bet small in this spot. in my mind sizeable bet > check > small bet. I'm trying to discourage the draw and take down the pot.

Also consider that AK is expected to continue here. The 14k shove to me is a behavior I see a lot in these tourneys from TPTK, to counter the c-bet from unmade hands in multiway pots here, as well as force out the drawing hands.

I guess I'm just trying to figure out how often it's bad luck I lose here versus is there any way I can read a fold here. It's such a small raise given my initial bet size (from 6k -> 14k with over 10k in the pot preflop). Can't call, as explained before. Can't fold. It's a (WTF) spot for sure.

OP, it's true that you'll be in front and hold some % of the time here, but it's for your tournament life with a one pair hand with a 5 way pot pre and two V's showing interest.

one pair is generally not enough in these spots. and you have so little chance to improve. it's gross, but you've gotta fold.

OP. it becomes really std to fold overpairs in spots like this. even 3way, if there is a call and a 3bet or smthng. by betting 4k, draws often call you, but still their direct odds are insufficient to hit the turn. and then u know which turn cards are good 4 u and which not; its possible to make good decisions on later streets. its not super often that draws would raise this flop. maybe only AKcc and T9cc does. So this is a "slightly ahead or way behind spot". If you fold, this will not be the determining hand of ur tourney, there is still a lot to play.

p.s. check my post count, lol

I'd be extremely tempted to iso-jam the flop given the sb only has 18bb to start the hand with.

He's got to be wider than 87s and the 3 set combinations. (88 and 77 can possibly discounted due to him maybe shoving pre flop) theres like 11000 roughly in the pot pre flop and we bet 6k got a caller with the sb being basically commited if they continue.

I'm all in, gg if the flatter trapped me.

Your hand is not under-repped at all: you opened from EP with a standardish sizing (2.9x pf is not an indication of a weaker holding) and c-bet a soaking wet board in a 5way flop. Your range is geared towards overpairs and big draws and you probably have all sets in your range as well.

Think flop sizing is good. This is not a great board for flatting with a set, especially with 3 people left to act so I think MP has 99-JJ or draws and to a lesser extent 8x type hands quite often, unless maybe he saw interest from the shortstack SB; in which case flatting a set would obv be perfect.
Readless though, I think we get it in with SB with a lot of MP dead money enough of the time to compensate for the times MP flatted a set.

Definitely can take AcKc out of his range, he's got to be shoving preflop five way with that hand and stack size. Part of me figured his 77 or 88 would shove pre, but that's a play for a good, aggressive player. There's a lot of players who love limping in this crowd, who love seeing things 'cheap', and who don't really understand how to play w/ < 20 bb.

This was my thinking. I'm glad I'm not the only one who came to this conclusion.