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Kickoff, bottom set vs ******ed line Kickoff, bottom set vs ******ed line

07-26-2015 , 07:46 PM
Villain is random from Poland.
His line is kinda consistent with their mentality generally so its a puke spot.
Guess we don`t fold, do we?
Do we ever consider shoving?

I was late for a party, just 10 hands at the table.

PokerStars - $100+$9|30/60 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 6,605
UTG: 5,670
UTG+1: 5,572
Hero (MP): 4,873
MP+1: 4,580
MP+2: 4,930
CO: 4,302
BTN: 3,438
SB: 5,950 (VPIP: 27.27, PFR: 18.18, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)

SB posts SB 30, BB posts BB 60

Pre Flop: (pot: 90) Hero has 6 6

UTG raises to 150, fold, Hero calls 150, fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to 300, BB calls 240, UTG calls 150, Hero calls 150

Flop: (1,200, 4 players) 6 J 7
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets 615, SB raises to 1,230, fold, fold, Hero calls 615

Turn: (3,660, 2 players) A
SB bets 660, Hero calls 660

River: (4,980, 2 players) 2
SB bets 900, Hero 2.7k....
Kickoff, bottom set vs ******ed line Quote
07-27-2015 , 05:25 AM
Pre flop call is fine. I'd bet more on the flop multi way to about 845.

I don't mind a re-re-raise on the flop however with a a semi dry flop a call IP is fine.

The A club is a good card for you, no straight draw hit and it hits a big part of his range. I expect him to continue here most of the time. I'm re raising the turn even more so with his small bet.

Easy call on the river. You're only losing to a better set.
Kickoff, bottom set vs ******ed line Quote
07-27-2015 , 06:30 AM
Maybe I'm a nit but I would fold pre, pre-antes I'd flat this from MP3 but not MP1.

Why aren't we 3! jamming the flop?

Otherwise this hand is just w/e, folding riv is fine if they never play KK/AJ like this...
Kickoff, bottom set vs ******ed line Quote
07-27-2015 , 06:39 AM
Jam on the flop or if you are trapping him we need to GII ott. A is the best card for us and it hits Vs range so strongly. Caling turn is spewy on heros side. Excactly why are we calling turn ? Pot is 5K we have half pot bet behind us ?
As played snap call river.
Kickoff, bottom set vs ******ed line Quote
07-27-2015 , 07:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphWaldoEmerson

Otherwise this hand is just w/e, folding riv is fine if they never play KK/AJ like this...
MADNESSSS. saying "if they never play KK/AJ like this then....." well from his whole 11 hands of history with villain im shocked that hero hasnt figured out his post flop tendencies yet. also if your flatting from mp3 you should be flatting form mp1 here 80bb deep. and folding river is the absolute nut worst. your have a set and have to be right 13% of the time to breakeven.

im thinking on flop id click back make it around ~2k. dont think he's ever doing this with air which is a reason to flat his 3bet or good enough to fold AJ/overpairs. (but you mention polish mentality iin your post dont know what that means? lags/tags/nit/btn mashers?)

as for shoving the river its close. at first i thought its a def shove. but its hard to put him on AK/AQ hands(unless polish=btn mashers) due to the c/r on the flop so his main c/r hand we get value from is AJ. his turn and river sizing to me seems to be either blockish bets with QQ/KK which is scared of the ace but still thinks it beats your range or a set which is trying to get max value. so i guess call would be optimal. pretty sure the way you worded this post you called/shved and he showed up with the goods but folding here is so so bad.
Kickoff, bottom set vs ******ed line Quote
07-27-2015 , 10:12 AM
Out of all the adjectives in the English language you had to choose '******ed.'
Kickoff, bottom set vs ******ed line Quote
07-27-2015 , 10:33 AM
why play $109
instead go to party and meet nice girl
as played get chips in
then you can go meet nice girl
gg
Kickoff, bottom set vs ******ed line Quote
07-27-2015 , 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whereisit
Out of all the adjectives in the English language you had to choose '******ed.'
Seems the most appropriate word for this situation.
I could call it just badly suboptimal.
W/e way you think about this spot it's hard not to mention lack of thought process behind villains action.

I mean one must be insane to think he reps some kind of balanced range with this line and what value hands make sense with his line are exactly AA, JJ.
But even if could occasionally show up with random hands he clearly should shove river otherwise he doesn't create any kind of tough spot for me with my bluffcatchers.

So I think it's more likely we are facing suboptimal exploitative strategy where he never bluffs and think there is a wide range of hands in my range which will be interested in bluffcatching which is such a bad misjudging.
Kickoff, bottom set vs ******ed line Quote
07-27-2015 , 10:41 AM
I thought you don´t like setmining :P
Kickoff, bottom set vs ******ed line Quote
07-27-2015 , 01:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsilver
why play $109
instead go to party and meet nice girl
as played get chips in
then you can go meet nice girl
gg
Wtf are you talking about old prick?
It's not like I'm still wondering how deep rabbit's is.
It's softest 109 on earth fwiw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OutPlayU27
I thought you don´t like setmining :P
You thought wrong man. It's a good spot.
Kickoff, bottom set vs ******ed line Quote
07-27-2015 , 01:35 PM
Folding river is awful.

Imo V should shove his entire range OTR. I think in game i shove here. But looking deeper, i think V's range is polarized to JJ-AA, so he will only call with better. But i just dont get it betting 900 to a 5k pot with JJ,AA.
Kickoff, bottom set vs ******ed line Quote
07-27-2015 , 10:05 PM
Torn between shoving and calling river. Probably best to just call
I'd try and gii otf often
Kickoff, bottom set vs ******ed line Quote
07-28-2015 , 12:13 AM
Preflop is correct this early. It is deep and you are likely to get a mulitiway pot.

Guess BB was a donk playing AA ******edly.

A set is a set. Maybe 3-bet flop. Raise turn. Shove river.
Kickoff, bottom set vs ******ed line Quote
07-28-2015 , 02:19 AM
If he is betting for protection, your shove most probably won't get called, so not sure how real value you are missing
If he is taking this line cause he is a fish, you can try to catch him later ...
If he is taking this line cause he is a genius, you loose your tourney life by shoving.

Simply call.
Kickoff, bottom set vs ******ed line Quote
07-28-2015 , 06:05 AM
Looks like he wants to gii otf with his AA so I would be happy to oblige him.
Kickoff, bottom set vs ******ed line Quote
07-28-2015 , 10:41 AM
People are you kidding me? Flop is super std b/c.
Kickoff, bottom set vs ******ed line Quote
07-28-2015 , 02:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwillsurvive
MADNESSSS. saying "if they never play KK/AJ like this then....." well from his whole 11 hands of history with villain im shocked that hero hasnt figured out his post flop tendencies yet. also if your flatting from mp3 you should be flatting form mp1 here 80bb deep. and folding river is the absolute nut worst. your have a set and have to be right 13% of the time to breakeven.
Dude relax, Hero alluded to some sort of reads on this player or player type in his post, so I'm just going off of that. Hero is the one who initially mentioned possibly folding river, not me. Folding river isn't the nut worst if he never plays a hand we're beating this way, but I agree with you that V could show up with QQ/KK some % of the time so I think it's a call. Shoving river would be the absolute nut worst imo, no idea why we would even consider doing that -- the only hand we can get paid by is AJ and V can't possibly put us on a hand that AJ beats here.

Also why should we be flatting this hand from MP1? Not saying it's right or wrong just seems extremely marginal to me (depending on UTG player type) with four players that have position on us yet to act. Hero says in this case it's a good spot, so I'm sure it is, but why is it a good spot generally?

Last edited by RalphWaldoEmerson; 07-28-2015 at 02:53 PM.
Kickoff, bottom set vs ******ed line Quote
07-28-2015 , 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by user12345
People are you kidding me? Flop is super std b/c.
How's that?
Kickoff, bottom set vs ******ed line Quote
07-30-2015 , 05:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by user12345
People are you kidding me? Flop is super std b/c.
yes, against a competent player.

Against a rando who's taken a lol-line pre OOP, and then taken a similarly lol line otf I feel pretty comfortable inferring that this player also thinks that tp+ is the nuts and will donate his chips to you with it.

Probably wouldn't have been a bad idea to OPR villain after his flop check-raise.
Kickoff, bottom set vs ******ed line Quote
07-30-2015 , 08:38 AM
This guy is clearly awful as we can see preflop/ flop. Anything other than r/c flop seems terrible
Kickoff, bottom set vs ******ed line Quote
07-30-2015 , 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragons_Egg
I feel pretty comfortable inferring that this player also thinks that tp+ is the nuts and will donate his chips to you with it.
only TPs for him are random misclicks due to pre, if he thinks TP is nuts he will donate his chips anyway.
Kickoff, bottom set vs ******ed line Quote
07-30-2015 , 10:36 PM
Just flat river but try GII otf or turn, just use the olf fashion stack a donk line and get the full double or chalk it up a cooler against a perceived ******.
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07-31-2015 , 01:02 PM
Pre and flop seem fine. Gii ott - if he hit his set, so be it. As played, flat river since there's not a lot you beat that is calling a jam.
Kickoff, bottom set vs ******ed line Quote

      
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