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Discussion about reshoving out the blinds Discussion about reshoving out the blinds

03-09-2015 , 09:36 AM
I would like to post about a certain situation that I seem to be losing a lot of money on lately and just would like it clarified. It involves having a re shove stack (around 13-20 BB) out the blinds vs a late pos raiser. I will post the following hand for an example:
    Poker Stars, $8 Buy-in (400/800 blinds, 80 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #35406841

    UTG+2: 29,200 (36.5 bb)
    MP1: 31,416 (39.3 bb)
    MP2: 13,925 (17.4 bb)
    MP3: 20,812 (26 bb)
    CO: 35,575 (44.5 bb)
    BTN: 37,492 (46.9 bb)
    Hero (SB): 15,810 (19.8 bb)
    BB: 30,928 (38.7 bb)
    UTG+1: 33,604 (42 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with T Q
    5 folds, CO raises to 1,600, BTN folds, Hero raises to 15,730 and is all-in, BB folds, CO calls 14,130

    Flop: (32,980) 5 7 A (2 players, 1 is all-in)
    Turn: (32,980) 8 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
    River: (32,980) Q (2 players, 1 is all-in)

    Spoiler:
    Results: 32,980 pot
    Final Board: 5 7 A 8 Q
    CO showed K Q and won 32,980 (17,170 net)
    Hero showed T Q and lost (-15,810 net)



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    I'm just wondering under what circumstances is this a profitable or not so profitable shove? And what range should I usually shove here? I'm starting to think this exact situation 10 Q is just a fold here against this certain player. He was playing solid tight aggressive and I had shoved on his cut off raise last round with JJ so his raising range is probably slightly tighter and his calling range more loose. So what range should I really be shoving here?
    Discussion about reshoving out the blinds Quote
    03-09-2015 , 09:40 AM
    Just another example of the dilemma I keep facing here:
      Poker Stars, $2 Buy-in (2,500/5,000 blinds, 625 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 8 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #35410861

      Hero (SB): 111,533 (22.3 bb)
      BB: 79,239 (15.8 bb)
      UTG+2: 42,232 (8.4 bb)
      MP1: 38,992 (7.8 bb)
      MP2: 54,802 (11 bb)
      MP3: 80,786 (16.2 bb)
      CO: 16,256 (3.3 bb)
      BTN: 119,849 (24 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with A 9
      5 folds, BTN raises to 10,000, Hero raises to 27,500, BB folds, BTN calls 17,500

      Flop: (65,000) 4 2 2 (2 players)
      Hero bets 83,408 and is all-in, BTN calls 83,408

      Turn: (231,816) 9 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      River: (231,816) 7 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

      Spoiler:
      Results: 231,816 pot
      Final Board: 4 2 2 9 7
      Hero showed A 9 and lost (-111,533 net)
      BTN showed J J and won 231,816 (120,283 net)



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      Against standard TAG players should I just be shoving these hands without thinking or is perhaps raising a better option here? Just would like opinions on this situation as it seems to be a weakness in my game lately.
      Discussion about reshoving out the blinds Quote
      03-10-2015 , 02:49 AM
      Really not sure why you'd shove in the first hand. Your range for raising or shoving should be defined by villain's opening range, I don't think QTo is good enough to call or raise/shove, I'd just fold.
      Also I'm not sure why you want to play a bigger pot out of position with A9o in the second hand.
      Discussion about reshoving out the blinds Quote
      03-10-2015 , 05:44 AM
      I think if you shove all of your range, you can mix some worse hands in there against aggros...
      Discussion about reshoving out the blinds Quote
      03-10-2015 , 07:55 AM
      Your re-shoving range obviously depends on villain's opening range and tendency to call off with weak aces, KQ and small pairs.
      I'm the kind of player who will re-shove with a lot of holdings if I think the time is right.

      A lot of players would not have called with KQ in your first example. Nevertheless, there were a few warning signs, that you should consider in those spots:
      - Villain has a comfortable stack and could think he can afford a gamble
      - You already re-shoved on this guy recently. At these stakes, your fold equity tends to diminish the second or third time around, even if it's not necessarily the right reaction.
      - It is a cut-off raise, not a button raise, and you are in the SB, not in the BB. While this represents more strength, it also introduces a higher risk for you. And again, at those stakes, I'm not sure that most players will be really aware that you're repping stronger in this spot.

      In the second hand, you still have more than 20BB. If you are unsure of your reads (villain's laggy-ness in this position for example), it is not a necessary shove at all.
      Discussion about reshoving out the blinds Quote
      03-10-2015 , 03:01 PM
      When I worked at this part of my game I did a lot of calculations about what I felt they would call and how that affected the net gain of the play. Might help you to do the same and then you can get a good idea for developing your reahove ranges.
      Discussion about reshoving out the blinds Quote
      03-10-2015 , 09:09 PM
      First one is definitely a fold.

      Second one is much closer with Ax. However, the overbet looks exactly like what you have, big cards that missed. It's also in a $2 MTT, you can pick way better spots in these.

      Play some 180Ts to get a gauge of what reshoves work and what does not.
      Discussion about reshoving out the blinds Quote

            
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