Originally Posted by betgo
Tend to think raiser is strong with 4xBB open, but deprends in read. Would usually fold, maybe flat to big open. In general would usually flat or 3b JTs on button, but depends on players, situation, reads, stack size and so on.
We never got stack sizes so it's hard to tell what's right here. A bit confused by the bolded part. If you are both short here (which is likely due to referenced turbo structure), a flat is pretty awful imo.