Haven't seen villain get out of line before this hand but as soon as I saw him raise and I got QQ I thought there was a chance he could 4bet light just because he is chipleader and im second in chips with a pretty big jump to 3rd players chips. I put him on KK+/AK and some air. He never valuebet worse and I thought that if he has air he doesn't take this line b/c/b but I think he plays AK and AA like that because he doesn't want to risk almost his whole stack with just one pair. Is it a call or fold OTR?

PokerStars - 8000/16000 Ante 2000 NL - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: 39.95 BB (VPIP: 26.32, PFR: 19.30, 3Bet Preflop: 4.17, Hands: 57)
CO: 38.3 BB (VPIP: 22.45, PFR: 15.31, 3Bet Preflop: 10.20, Hands: 98)
Hero (BTN): 81.97 BB
SB: 46.53 BB (VPIP: 29.89, PFR: 14.94, 3Bet Preflop: 7.32, Hands: 87)
BB: 48.15 BB (VPIP: 28.07, PFR: 17.86, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 59)
UTG: 98.22 BB (VPIP: 21.05, PFR: 15.79, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, Hands: 19)

6 players post ante of 0.13 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.25 BB) Hero has Q Q

UTG raises to 2.11 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 4.94 BB, fold, fold, UTG raises to 13.22 BB, Hero calls 8.28 BB

Flop: (28.68 BB, 2 players) K 6 4
UTG bets 10.33 BB, Hero calls 10.33 BB

Turn: (49.33 BB, 2 players) 8
UTG checks, Hero checks

River: (49.33 BB, 2 players) 8
UTG bets 21.98 BB, ?

What's our image? Maybe this is too NITTY, but fold flop? Other than a total bluff, what hands do we beat on this board?

Otr AK makes a lot of sense, maybe we're chopping with QQ.

My image was pretty aggresive since I started FT as a big chipleader (villain had just taken over chiplead just before this pot).

Im never folding OTF for that price. I think I only beat air who takes a strange line for air

I guess I'm confused as to why we think villain is opening and 4-betting some junk hand UTG against an IP player who almost covers him at an FT. You say he hasn't gotten out of line, so why are we deciding to give him credit for getting out of LINE? Your logic doesn't really make sense IMO.

I'm just saying that I thought it was a possibility he 4betting junk to put pressure on the other big stack. Not saying that I think it was a good chance. I folded otr but I thought a about calling and a friend of mine who is a good player said it was a call. Just want other opinions here and give my thoughts about the hand

Your friend might be right. Just my 2 cents. I would think his bluffs bet the turn since we'd likely fold TT-QQ to 2 barrels on this board.

That was my exact thought too. I think if he has air he is more likely to go bet/bet than b/x/b

ill make like 6bb pre this Deep, post ill play it the same and call river, expecting to be beat by random Kx some % of the time but not enough to fold imo, I guess given your image he has quite a bit of bluffs pre, cause most of his mid strength range wants to flat (even AK) given how stacks are lined-up.

No way this guy is a winning or good player. He even picked up a gutter OTT and didn't barrel on a board that smacks his range. Tag him and play accordingly in the future.

with icm in play and the fact we block AQ I doubt I hero river.

I like your pre, flop and turn lines.. but I want to keep 2nd in chips and if we fold we still have 60bb.

He should be pretty polar otr so he may not bet a medium strength hand like 99-JJ its usually AK/KK+ or air, as we are readless with 19 hands and icm to boot I think we have to err on the side of caution and make the river fold

my god I just saw the spoiler.. lol what a hero

I had the same thoughts at the moment. If I fold I will still be 2nd chips. But now when I look back, If I call and lose I have about the same amount of chips as the rest of the field. How much more can I do with a 60bb stack vs 38-46bb stack that I can't do with a 40bb stack? And if I call and win I'm a huuuuuge chipleader

How is everyone so deep?

This is the biggest mistake in the hand.

The question was about the river though. Do you call or fold otr as played?

River is probably a call but close and kind of whatever. Not sure what your range to flat 4bets is here, but I guess QQ is going to be at the top of your range to reach the river when you check back turn.

In close situations it doesn't really matter what the result is. It will be a small result either way. However, if you are commonly 3betting to this size when this deep, you are 100% leaking in your 3betting strategy.

Thanks. 6bb or even more is a better size? Just against villains stack or against all the other stacksizes too?

The primary factor should be how deep you are effective vs the opener. Pick a size where you feel you have fold equity with your bluffs. In this instance, 7bb sounds good.

Hey man just here to give my 2 cents.

First, the 3b seems just too small. I'd size most of my range around 5.5-6.5bb on the Button and bigger OOP. If you only 3b small to induce a lite 4bet like you said well than it seems like a clear call. BTW his 4b sizing to me screams weak more often than not. Way too small to be AK/KK. I'd say the only hand he's beating you with that sizing is AA. All other 4b bluff hands you're crushing his range (Ax suited/rag combos and perhaps some Kx hands.

Clear call on flop. You're either really far ahead or essentially dead right?

Turn check seems most reasonable again. You keep all his bluffs in and you're really not getting calls too often from a weaker hand.

River seems like a classic sigh call.

Its the mother of all snapcalls

I'd fold pre flop, given the chip stacks. 81 bb v 98 bb , and the other 4 players have less then 50bb. Aside from ICM value, it's optimal to play everyone except the only big stack. (If you put him in a range including a K, why continue after flop?) QQ simply doesn't have as much value against the big stack given the other 50bb stacks.

sizing pre is bad as greg pointed out. i guess its not completely out of the question to flat the initial raise but i prefer 3b to 7bb as well. flop and turn are std, i guess it comes down to what you would do with AA, KK and AK pre after being 4b. if you flat those rather than 5b its somewhat close otr, however if you 5b at least AA, KK and maybe even AKs you have a pretty easy call otr especially given villains sizing. its rly tough for you to have a better hand otr if you 5b aces and kings.

Except for 3bet size as others have pointed out I like your line.

I think I would only 5bet with AA in this spot considering icm. So QQ is not the top of my range otr. I would play AK and KK the same pf and AK the the same post flop. Would probably bet KK ott. If I have the top of my range I still shouldn't always call right? If I think he's bluffing less than the odds im getting its still a fold even tho I have the best possibly hand I can have? Maybe not in a high roller with the best players in the world but this is the big55

sure, the bigger he bets the tighter our calling range has to be. if he bet like 40bb+ otr we can probably just call most Kx and AA and fold the rest. however we are getting better than 3-1 otr so his bluffing frequency doesnt have to be sky high to make QQ a reasonable call. not to mention that there is a non zero percent chance that he could be vbetting (blockbetting for that matter) with a worse made hand. not saying that its going to happen terribly often but its still possible.