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big109 AQ oop in a 3bet pot

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10-11-2013 , 06:27 PM

Kapitonas

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 264

Opponent seemed decent regish at 10abi, no more info. It was my first 3bet in that tournament.

At first I thought that's always AJ, but as I kind of underepped my hand there, he must have some bluffs in his range, but then again what would he call flop with.
Trivial fold here?

Poker Stars, $100 Buy-in (25/50 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #19939171

BB: 2,815 (56.3 bb)
UTG+1: 2,790 (55.8 bb)
UTG+2: 2,955 (59.1 bb)
MP1: 5,015 (100.3 bb)
MP2: 3,065 (61.3 bb)
MP3: 2,970 (59.4 bb)
CO: 3,175 (63.5 bb)
BTN: 4,085 (81.7 bb)
Hero (SB): 3,350 (67 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q

4 folds, MP3 raises to 100, 2 folds, Hero raises to 283, BB folds, MP3 calls 183

Flop: (616) 4

(2 players)
Hero bets 302, MP3 calls 302

Turn: (1,220) A

(2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets 488, Hero calls 488

River: (2,196) 4

(2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets 1,897 and is all-in, Hero folds

Spoiler:

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

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10-11-2013 , 06:35 PM

WashUrHandsPlz

banned

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 2,570

do you think he folds sets, AK or 76dd otf?

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10-11-2013 , 06:46 PM

johall111

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 4,496

i like a turn bet. im less concerned w balance than alot of posters here but in common spots like turn barrels i think you have to be aware of what chking AQ on A turn does to your range.

as played i fold becus i doubt 10abi floated flop/called w gutshot then bet turn got called and decided to attack your capped range at 25-50(gto demands a call here but i think we can exploit fold)

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10-11-2013 , 07:10 PM

shichibukai

adept

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 1,018

im calling

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10-11-2013 , 07:11 PM

cicakman

banned

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 9,229

Call

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10-11-2013 , 07:26 PM

AceAP

enthusiast

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 59

Good fold... Though c bet after the flop was not really a good idea i believe.

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10-11-2013 , 07:32 PM

WashUrHandsPlz

banned

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 2,570

Quote:

Originally Posted by johall111

as played i fold becus i doubt 10abi floated flop/called w gutshot then bet turn got called and decided to attack your capped range at 25-50(gto demands a call here but i think we can exploit fold)

Srsly we should never be in this river spot readless.
And not sure why we should apply game theory to river spot since we`ve no idea what kind of range he comes to the river with and his tendencies.

and still it`s fold.

but idk Cicak calls for example,so....

Last edited by WashUrHandsPlz; 10-11-2013 at 07:44 PM.

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10-11-2013 , 07:34 PM

cicakman

banned

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 9,229

Our hand totally looks like QQ KK.

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10-11-2013 , 07:37 PM

johall111

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 4,496

wash the 2nd line of your last post is confusing and seems wrong
we should apply gto to any spot where we are readless and dont want to be exploited. we step away from gto when we know how to exploit. i know we came to same conclusion but i think thats faulty reasoning no?

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10-11-2013 , 07:44 PM

#10

shichibukai

adept

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 1,018

Quote:

Originally Posted by cicakman

Our hand totally looks like QQ KK.

jx too even tt 99 sometimes

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10-11-2013 , 07:48 PM

#11

cicakman

banned

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 9,229

Quote:

Originally Posted by shichibukai

jx too even tt 99 sometimes

yea also these but most people wont 3b 99 or KJ QJ from the sb at 25/50 so its tough to add those in. same with AQo and im sure a big amount of AQs. at least the amount of combos is way less than ~100% like KK QQ would be.

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10-11-2013 , 07:49 PM

#12

WashUrHandsPlz

banned

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 2,570

Quote:

Originally Posted by johall111

we should apply gto to any spot where we are readless and dont want to be exploited.

Only if we believe our opponent would try to exploit us.

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i know we came to same conclusion but i think thats faulty reasoning no?

Yes, I wasn`t sure how to say it correctly.

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jx too even tt 99 sometimes

???
I think our worst value hand we c/c turn with is Jx.
but w/e really....more important is would we check sets here if we check AQ.

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10-11-2013 , 07:54 PM

#13

cicakman

banned

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 9,229

lol why would you check a set?

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10-11-2013 , 08:02 PM

#14

shichibukai

adept

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 1,018

Quote:

Originally Posted by WashUrHandsPlz

???

think about his range
imo villain has a lot of pairs in his range
i guess he s turning a good % in bluff
so c/c tt even 99 isent that bad

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10-12-2013 , 04:02 AM

#15

Kapitonas

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 264

I dont know why I gave him so narrow pf calling range in game. I see from your posts that opponent is way wider here. So, yeah I should ve called

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10-12-2013 , 08:30 AM

#16

td333dzul

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 517

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kapitonas

4 folds, MP3 raises to 100, 2 folds, Hero raises to 283, BB folds, MP3 calls 183

Flop: (616) 4

(2 players)
Hero bets 302, MP3 calls 302

Turn: (1,220) A

(2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets 488, Hero calls 488

River: (2,196) 4

(2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets 1,897 and is all-in, Hero folds

Spoiler:

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

vom fold?

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10-12-2013 , 08:41 AM

#17

Aon1234

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 530

The way this hand played out is the reason why we should bet ott.
As played, it's almost a guessing game otr. Knowing his avg. BI we can fold, considering the fact that he probably isn't good enough to turn low pp's into bluffs. VS reggish op's this is probably a sigh call, just cause we look so weak: KK,QQ, KJ, QJ.

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10-14-2013 , 09:52 PM

#18

gregz41

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,609

Little more pre, turn check is nice vs a thinking villain. See my thread a few weeks ago.

As played call river when your perceived range looks like TT, Jx, QQ and KK.

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10-14-2013 , 10:16 PM

#19

WashUrHandsPlz

banned

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 2,570

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregz41

Little more pre, turn check is nice vs a thinking villain. See my thread a few weeks ago.

That`s still sub-optimal Gregz. Good players shove good ranges otr anyway.
Since when bluff-catching has became good strategy?

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10-14-2013 , 10:20 PM

#20

shichibukai

adept

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 1,018

Quote:

Originally Posted by WashUrHandsPlz

That`s still sub-optimal Gregz. Good players shove good ranges otr anyway.
Since when bluff-catching has became good strategy?

imo in this spot the only way to get value is by inducing
his range is pair <j ,jx and some ajx

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10-14-2013 , 10:25 PM

#21

gregz41

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,609

Quote:

Originally Posted by WashUrHandsPlz

That`s still sub-optimal Gregz. Good players shove good ranges otr anyway.
Since when bluff-catching has became good strategy?

Seems somewhat optimal to check turn, you widen the decision tree with a pretty good bluff catcher and give him more chances to make a mistake. Put it this way, he'll make more mistakes when you check turn than when you bet turn.

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10-14-2013 , 10:38 PM

#22

WashUrHandsPlz

banned

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 2,570

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregz41

Seems somewhat optimal to check turn, you widen the decision tree with a pretty good bluff catcher and give him more chances to make a mistake. Put it this way, he'll make more mistakes when you check turn than when you bet turn.

??
he has to decide with his pairs, Jx when we bet turn which is big part of his range.
Now if we check he can check back or float, if he floats and you c/c your range is pretty face, you obv never have air.
So furthermore otr its up to him what to do with you.....

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10-15-2013 , 01:03 AM

#23

furo

deviation of equilibrium

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 29,639

Quote:

Originally Posted by johall111

Sounds good to me
Turn is w/e but changes our range and therefore River Action. Checking turn means autocheck river and I don't like to give free showdowns when I can have tons of hands but have top/second in a 3b pot vs thinking player

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10-15-2013 , 03:53 AM

#24

mashxx

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 7,807

flat pre

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