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Midstakes MTT Discussion and analysis of midstakes MTT strategy

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Old 03-14-2017, 08:25 PM   #1
harry02
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$550 Live MTT

Nearing End of Day 1 (1 more level to go, 3 day tourney)

Blinds : 1000/2000 Ante : 300

Hero (UTG+2) Stack : 67K
Villian (UTG+3) Stack: ~85K

Hero : AKo opens 5300 , Villian 3bet 16000

folded back to hero.

Hero (4bet shove, Call, fold) ?
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Old 03-14-2017, 09:29 PM   #2
Shortfuse
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Re: $550 Live MTT

Jamming ainec.
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Old 03-15-2017, 08:34 AM   #3
onehandatatime
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Re: $550 Live MTT

reads on opponent?
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Old 03-15-2017, 09:05 AM   #4
harry02
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Re: $550 Live MTT

V moved to our table recently.. so not much with reads..
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Old 03-15-2017, 09:49 AM   #5
onehandatatime
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Re: $550 Live MTT

I don't think folding is good and we're just deep enough where I think calling and going to the flop is ok without any specific reads.
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Old 03-15-2017, 12:04 PM   #6
vyken111
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Re: $550 Live MTT

This is such a player dependent spot so it stinks you don't have any reads on him. I'm not a big fan of jamming 33bb with ace high when the villian shows tremendous strength pre and I don't have any reads. That's a big raise from early/middle-ish position. I've definitely been in tournaments where I would just fold this pre and move on stealing other pots. With zero reads this is a call for me and only continuing with A or K or good flush draw type boards.

I think too many people go crazy with AK. You accumulated a nice stack... why stack off in a situation where you're flipping at best? AA or KK is certainly possible while 10-10 to QQ is most likely. Nobody is calling a 4-bet shove there with AQ and I don't know many players 3-betting early position with AJ/A10 type hands. It seems pretty likely he has 1010 or better so take a flop and fold if you don't hit.
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Old 03-15-2017, 12:31 PM   #7
hitchens97
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Re: $550 Live MTT

32BB - I'm jamming here, unless we have some great read. You have blockers to AA, KK - and people may even fold TT, JJ here.
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Old 03-15-2017, 12:46 PM   #8
onehandatatime
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Re: $550 Live MTT

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Originally Posted by hitchens97 View Post
32BB - I'm jamming here, unless we have some great read. You have blockers to AA, KK - and people may even fold TT, JJ here.
yeah but is it really necessary to risk our tournament life with a coin flip at best with 32bb's?
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Old 03-15-2017, 12:58 PM   #9
2pairsof2s
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Re: $550 Live MTT

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Originally Posted by vyken111 View Post
I'm not a big fan of jamming 33bb with ace high when the villian shows tremendous strength pre and I don't have any reads. That's a big raise from early/middle-ish position.

With zero reads this is a call for me and only continuing with A or K or good flush draw type boards.

I think too many people go crazy with AK. You accumulated a nice stack... why stack off in a situation where you're flipping at best? AA or KK is certainly possible while 10-10 to QQ is most likely. Nobody is calling a 4-bet shove there with AQ and I don't know many players 3-betting early position with AJ/A10 type hands. It seems pretty likely he has 1010 or better so take a flop and fold if you don't hit.
This is what I think too
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Old 03-15-2017, 01:11 PM   #10
harry02
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Re: $550 Live MTT

I also thought on same lines then and proceed with call.

flop was JTx (rainbow)

check - cBet - fold

but now if I think back it seems call was not good option it might be better to shove or fold pre.

my left over stack is now around 52K with blinds increasing soon to 1.5K/3K , I am roughly ~17 blinds.

Also pre flop Pot was ~(27K) , if i get the guy to fold I would have gone to around ~90K ( i believe he would have folded TT,JJ,AK) ..probably call with only 3 hands QQ,AA,KK .

Let me know your thoughts on this..
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Old 03-15-2017, 04:08 PM   #11
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Re: $550 Live MTT

Shove, because he could be 3-betting light. The flop hits TT/JJ, but not sure if it is a clear fold with 10 outs to improve.
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Old 03-15-2017, 04:30 PM   #12
onehandatatime
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Re: $550 Live MTT

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Originally Posted by betgo View Post
Shove, because he could be 3-betting light. The flop hits TT/JJ, but not sure if it is a clear fold with 10 outs to improve.
Don't think he's 3betting too light from that position, Unless you have a good read on him
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Old 03-15-2017, 06:40 PM   #13
Afteryastack
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Re: $550 Live MTT

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Originally Posted by harry02 View Post
I also thought on same lines then and proceed with call.

flop was JTx (rainbow)

check - cBet - fold

but now if I think back it seems call was not good option it might be better to shove or fold pre.

my left over stack is now around 52K with blinds increasing soon to 1.5K/3K , I am roughly ~17 blinds.

Also pre flop Pot was ~(27K) , if i get the guy to fold I would have gone to around ~90K ( i believe he would have folded TT,JJ,AK) ..probably call with only 3 hands QQ,AA,KK .

Let me know your thoughts on this..
That's the thing... are you happy to take through only 17BB to day 2? If the answer is no then you should be jamming pre. If the answer is yes then your line is fine IMO.

I prefer the more aggro approach here with 32BB and 4B shove given my answer to the above would be no.

I think however if this were day 2 leading into day 3, I would take the same line you did.

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Old 03-15-2017, 09:37 PM   #14
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Re: $550 Live MTT

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Originally Posted by onehandatatime View Post
Don't think he's 3betting too light from that position, Unless you have a good read on him
He is 3-betting a 3rd position raise from 4th position, which is probably hijack and could be cutoff. You might not expect it much for that much of effective stacks live, but he could have bluffs he folds to the 4b and could have AQ.
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Old 03-16-2017, 01:22 PM   #15
vyken111
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Re: $550 Live MTT

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Originally Posted by Afteryastack View Post
That's the thing... are you happy to take through only 17BB to day 2? If the answer is no then you should be jamming pre. If the answer is yes then your line is fine IMO.
This is a horrible way to think about hands. The stack I'm taking into the next day is completely irrelevant to me.
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Old 03-16-2017, 01:43 PM   #16
Afteryastack
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Re: $550 Live MTT

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Originally Posted by vyken111 View Post
This is a horrible way to think about hands. The stack I'm taking into the next day is completely irrelevant to me.
That's your opinion. I don't think it's in any way horrible.

So if you take 1 or 2 BB through, it's irrelevant?

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Old 03-16-2017, 01:46 PM   #17
WorldResident
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Re: $550 Live MTT

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Originally Posted by vyken111 View Post
This is a horrible way to think about hands. The stack I'm taking into the next day is completely irrelevant to me.
Exactly. If you think like this people will exploit and abuse you.

I would shove pre. Folding AKo is no option. Floating AKo OOP isn't great either. You will miss the flop 64% of the time. You gonna fold to every cbet? Best option is to shove imo. Especially with the blinds going up soon.
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Old 03-16-2017, 02:36 PM   #18
vyken111
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Re: $550 Live MTT

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Originally Posted by Afteryastack View Post
That's your opinion. I don't think it's in any way horrible.

So if you take 1 or 2 BB through, it's irrelevant?

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We're not talking about 1 or 2 BB, we're talking about changing your play with 30+ BBs.

That's the type of player I have abused in the past. Just this last tournament I played... during the last hour of day 1 I went from 85k to 155k putting pressure on people who either didn't want to get busted with a few hands left or cripple their stack going into day 2. Unless you are facing a substantial opportunity cost by staying another day (say $400 plane ticket change and hotel costs) then you're thinking about the game wrong and will be exploited.
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Old 03-16-2017, 03:36 PM   #19
SetSetter
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Re: $550 Live MTT

I like 4bet-jamming personally.

If vill calls our jam with JJ+/AK, we only need about 18% fold equity on our jam. Seems like there is a decent chance any vill 3bet-folds more than 18% of the time here (and/or calls off wider than JJ+/AK).

It's certainly a high-variance play either way, so I guess it's just a matter of how much you want to embrace or minimize your variance in spots like these. Personally I come from a online multitabling MTT background, so I am much more likely to take high-variance spots like this and if I bust I simply move on to my other 20 tournaments. I understand however that this mentality may be much different in a live 3-day tournament.
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