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Old 02-09-2012, 02:18 AM   #1
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$345 live QQ on A high flop

1st Post bear with me

Late in day 1 of 2 day event, about 20 spots from the money (45 pays) Blinds 1k/2k with 300 ante. Avg stack around 60k

been at this table about 3 levels (40 min levels) and have been involved in more pots than at least half the table, image probably more on the aggressive side but have also been picking good spots and staying away from the 2 huge stacks at the table. been mixing it up a bit at this table and increased stack size about 50% since joining this table but havent had to show down many hands.

Hero has approx 60k
Villain approx 90k

Been raising villains big blind from the button pretty consistently but with unopened pots and with hands that I could be far ahead of the blinds ranges, villain also seems to be getting pretty tilted because he never has a hand when in the BB to play back at me.

Pick up QQ UTG+1, opens for 5K. Villain min 3bets 10K. Folds around I call

Flop A,2,6 rainbow. Play here?
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Old 02-09-2012, 05:31 AM   #2
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Re: $345 live QQ on A high flop

just fold if he cbets, you raised UTG he 3bet from EP, after this flop you don't beat any of his range, maybe only JJ if you were aggressive, but it's not worth to ply this hand after flop
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Old 02-09-2012, 08:06 AM   #3
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Re: $345 live QQ on A high flop

Full ring table?
What`s his position?

Won`t flat his 3bet, esp if you`re OOP.
4b/c is better probably.
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Old 02-09-2012, 09:29 AM   #4
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Re: $345 live QQ on A high flop

full ring table ( down to 8 handed play) he has position on me

villain is solid player, is there any reason to think he could 3 betting me light here just to try taking the pot down pre flop? Guess 4 betting would have been justified here then but did make me wonder a bit and id been playing well post flop.

Figured I would evaluate on the flop and also felt that he knew an A would be a good card to make a play on regardless of his hand.
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Old 02-09-2012, 09:41 AM   #5
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Re: $345 live QQ on A high flop

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Originally Posted by RunCool13 View Post
Figured I would evaluate on the flop and also felt that he knew an A would be a good card to make a play on regardless of his hand.
Yes, what`s your options now being oop and with no initiative?
It`s sooner he who can make you fold better.

W/ 30bb vs aggro 4b/c is always better.
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Old 02-09-2012, 12:33 PM   #6
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Re: $345 live QQ on A high flop

I see now I kind of felt like given the table talk between us and how the table has been playing that it was a situation that he was just trying to play back at me
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Old 02-09-2012, 02:21 PM   #7
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Re: $345 live QQ on A high flop

First, welcome to the forum. Look forward to hearing from you in the future. Now to the matter at hand (hand at matter?)...

Given villain's perceived frustration with your aggro play, I think his 3bet range is relatively wide and would likely include hands like middle suited connectors that he would like to play against you since he has position. The ace on the flop might be just as scary for him as it is for you. Since the Ace is there, I like taking the route of betting out on the flop, approximately 1/2 pot (somewhere between 10-12k). A check on this flop shows lots of weakness, and there is almost zero chance of him checking it back to you regardless of what he's holding. I'd rather take the aggressive route and take a stab at the flop with the intention of folding to a raise.

If this fails, you'd be left with about 40k, or 20 bb's. I'm sure that some people on here will not like the idea of making a bet for 1/5 of your remaining stack, but I personally think that with 20 bb's, you will still have a large enough stack to make a few moves before the bubble hits.

That said, I'm also a fan of the 4-bet pre-flop. I really don't like flatting pre with QQ out of position.
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Old 02-09-2012, 02:35 PM   #8
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Re: $345 live QQ on A high flop

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Originally Posted by DodgerPSU View Post
Since the Ace is there, I like taking the route of betting out on the flop, approximately 1/2 pot (somewhere between 10-12k). A check on this flop shows lots of weakness, and there is almost zero chance of him checking it back to you regardless of what he's holding. I'd rather take the aggressive route and take a stab at the flop with the intention of folding to a raise. .
I actually lead out here for 10k, he thought for a few seconds made the call. thought he may have a lower pair. on the turn another A hits and i think that I am way ahead of him having an Ace.
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Old 02-09-2012, 03:07 PM   #9
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Re: $345 live QQ on A high flop

To be honest, that's kinda the way I figured the hand played out. The additional Ace on the turn is a nasty card. It makes us think we're ahead of his hand with the perception that he is now less likely to have an ace, but of course we're getting snapped off on a turn bet if he does have Ax.

In this situation I'm trying really hard to pick up some sort of read on the opponent, especially if I've been playing with him for a while. Its a really dangerous spot, and one that frequently gets me knocked out of a tournament for misplaying.

Your options on the turn are:
1. Shove for your remaining 40k
2. Check and fold to any aggression at all. He might check behind if he has the Ace, so be careful but it would be a helluva spot to spike a Q on the river!
3. Check and try again for a read when he raises. Call/fold (usually fold) based on your analysis.

For me, I usually shove here....and lose when I get called by something like AT or AJ. Oops. I think the line should probably be a check and re-evaluate. I hate this spot, but its also very common.
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Old 02-09-2012, 04:00 PM   #10
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Re: $345 live QQ on A high flop

I probably should have checked the turn but Took he approach of shoving unfortunately I ran into the very top of his range and he snaps with AA and I hit he rail. If the ace on the turn doesn't come I think I'm comfortable just check folding here but it was a spot where I really questioned the move to shove after I did it
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Old 02-09-2012, 04:13 PM   #11
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Re: $345 live QQ on A high flop

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Originally Posted by RunCool13 View Post
I probably should have checked the turn but Took he approach of shoving unfortunately I ran into the very top of his range and he snaps with AA and I hit he rail. If the ace on the turn doesn't come I think I'm comfortable just check folding here but it was a spot where I really questioned the move to shove after I did it
Yeah, it happens to the best of us. I've certainly hit the rail in that situation. But damn... AA???? That's just unfortunate!
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Old 02-09-2012, 06:03 PM   #12
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Re: $345 live QQ on A high flop

4b/c pre .. c/c flop if u like but dont lead.. c/f turn
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Old 02-09-2012, 06:57 PM   #13
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Re: $345 live QQ on A high flop

Get it in pre, especially with history and villain's image of you.
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Old 02-16-2012, 06:12 PM   #14
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Re: $345 live QQ on A high flop

+1 shove pre
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Old 02-16-2012, 10:37 PM   #15
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Re: $345 live QQ on A high flop

+1 for shove pre, flop is just ugly cos we can't really do anything good. c/c once sucks the least with the intention of c/f river mostly
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