Okey I would love some help!

Ante is 25.
Blinds are 200/400
Hero has 7508 chips and get dealt KQo UTG+1.
I mid raise to 800.
I get folds until Villan on the Button shoves for 3284, everyone else folds and it's on me.

4909 in the pot, call =2482.
So the pot-ods are good, and I'm probably flipping.

I folded, and feel like I should have called...

Is this a snapcall?

Thank you so much in advance! I would love to here your thought process here!!!

Yea, it is indeed a snap call. Never raise folding KQ sub 10bb.

Easily agree with ChanY. You should also make a better habit of eyeing the stack sizes behind you and also having a plan when opening in any situation.

I don't really like the min raise there UTG+1. In that spot I think you need to make a strong bet (4-5xBB minimum) to thin the field since there's so many players yet to act. A min raise is inviting action and you have a hand that doesn't play well in multi-way situations. If you're uncomfortable playing KQo in that spot under the gun then you're better off folding, but a 4-5xBB bet may very well have scared off the villain in the first place - when you're all-in or fold mode it's easier to lead out than it is to call someone else's big bet.

But once you made the min raise, you probably put yourself in a position where calling the bet is ok. At 8BB villain's range is pretty wide and there are plenty of hands you could be ahead of and many you could flipping against. It was worth the call.

Its madness to fold KQ at any semi-shallow stack size, only exception if you are on a particularly tough table but even then you can advocate for an open. Making it more than 2.5x is also never a good idea.

I disagree somewhat, because KQo isn't the best hand to play multi-way and you're more likely to get multiple callers the smaller your bet is. I personally think if you're going to play KQo from an early position you either play it aggressively or don't play it at all.

But again, I'm new to the forums so I can be completely wrong.

Raising 4-5xbb is horrid. Whatever the stack size. Why would you rather raise 4-5xbb rather than 2xbb with a hand such as KQo? If you raise to 2,000 then folding when someone shoves would be horrible.

Not a hard spot. Maybe you should work on your basics more before playing as you seem to have problems with decision making.
If you don't care about losing money its obv fine to learn it the hard way.

If you play KQo in that situation for 2BB, you're less likely to get everyone to fold to you and you're inviting action on a hand that plays poorly multiway.

If you play KQo in that situation for 4BB, you're more likely to get everyone to fold to you and are less likely to get multiway action.

Whether you call the shove really depends on stacks and ranges and I'm not sure how much difference 2BB vs. 4BB makes in the long run there.

Now if you're playing early and middle position, obviously you bet differently. And if you're playing hands that play better in a multi-handed situations like suited connectors, then you can bet smaller.

So again, my argument - if you're going to play a hand in early position that plays poorly multiway (and that includes pairs as well as unsuited broadway hands) then it is important to bet pre-flop in such a way where you have a better chance of thinning the field. If you're not willing to play that hand in early position for whatever reason (stack sizes, nature of play at table, etc.) then you're better off not playing the hand rather than just min raising.

If I'm wrong on that and there's statistical evidence to illustrate that, I'm all ears, though. To be clear, I'm here to get better and plug leaks in my game, and if overbetting PF is one of them I want to understand why.

Not many hard decisions in $30 MTTs, and this isn't one either.

You're getting 2-1, and you're rarely a total dog here, you're most likely flipping or have 2 live cards.

Not many hard decisions in $30 MTTs, and this isn't one either.

You're getting 2-1, and you're rarely a total dog here, you're most likely flipping or have 2 live cards.

I'm sorry, but this is so 1990's poker mindset. But you came to the right place. We'll catch you up to speed on modern poker strategy.

In today's game, raising 2.2BBs or 5BBs doesn't change the calling of your opponents. If they have a hand and they want to see a flop, they will call either bet. Just think about it. You are playing a loose player who likes to see alot of flops. Blinds are 150/300 +50 with 10k stacks. My bet size would be 650. If instead you bet to 1,050 (3.5x) do you really think the extra 400 is making them fold? In today's game you are not getting the loose players to fold.

Now if you bet smaller, as all the great players do, as I advocate and many of the other good players here, you are risking less. If you get called 4 ways and the flop is bad, you can walk away with only losing a small investment.

If you decide to c-bet your c-bet will be smaller. If that doesn't work, your investment was smaller and you walk away with more chips. Smaller bets = more opportunities to bet = more leverage.

On top of the logical argument presented, look at the empirical evidence. All of the players who are killing the MTTs. They are betting small. The players still betting large are not faring as well.

It seems illogical to someone who learned in the early 2000's as I did. I learned the same methods. but over the past 5 years, I've been slowly reducing my bet size and as my preflop bets get smaller, my results get better.

Like you, I've been playing for a long time (20 years). I was indoctrinated in the "min raises are bad" school of pre-flop poker. For years I'd rarely see 2-2.5x BB opens from good players, except in late position and/or maybe really deep in tournaments.

The last few years I've started to see a lot of smaller raises pre-flop and thought it was just the result of a lot of players indoctrinated in online poker just auto-raising 2xBB because they could without regard for position or hand. But as you make good arguments for being more conservative with pre-flop raise sizing and I'll definitely take that into consideration.

Thanks for the response.

doesn’t seem like a hard spot. Be more attentive for reshove stacks. your getting good pot odds and your probably just flipping at the worst.

Thank you very much guys!
I'm thinking that my mid raise wasn't that bad. I can't really fold KQ that short in my opinion. And then deciding to fold when a tight player shoves and call when a looser player shoves.

I am not folding KQ the next time this happens to me.
Thank you so much for the input!!!

Anyone else but me consider folding KQo UTG+1 when 9 handed with an M<10 and shorties to act behind?

I don't think that's unreasonable.

FWIW - Jennifear has this as an unexploitable shove, but it's right on the cusp. I think you can make a case for min raise, fold, or shove depending upon dynamics, image, and stack sizes.

Never. The raise is +EV and so is the call.

yes

FYP