#Game No : 615077542
***** 888poker Hand History for Game 615077542 *****
$10/$20 Blinds No Limit Holdem - ***
Tournament #60622077 $32 + $3 - Table #8 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: T9s78o ( $5,000 )
Seat 2: powerbetman ( $4,990 )
Seat 3: london_ace ( $4,970 )
Seat 4: floatmasta ( $5,010 )
Seat 5: god_lov3s_me ( $5,000 )
Seat 6: VaughanAha ( $5,000 )
Seat 7: 3dd1ec ( $5,000 )
Seat 9: goldenjax ( $4,920 )
Seat 10: billsv ( $5,110 )
floatmasta posts small blind [$10]
god_lov3s_me posts big blind [$20]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to london_ace [ A, K ]
VaughanAha folds
3dd1ec raises [$52]
goldenjax folds
billsv raises [$159]
T9s78o folds
powerbetman folds
london_ace calls [$159]
floatmasta folds
god_lov3s_me folds
3dd1ec calls [$107]
** Dealing flop ** [ 4, A, A]
3dd1ec checks
billsv bets [$213]
london_ace calls [$213]
3dd1ec calls [$213]
** Dealing turn ** [ 8 ]
3dd1ec checks
billsv checks
london_ace bets [$573]
3dd1ec raises [$2,148]
billsv folds
london_ace ???


Hey,

This was in the early goings of the tourney so no reads.

I was unsure what to do OTT , there's a few hands that we do beat like AQs/AJs. We are very deep here, do we give up or GII? Villian's line seems very strong IMO multi way in a 3-bet pot , his range sorta screams out a boat. The only hand i see beating me is 44...I'm not sure if V would float with 8s otf here , thoughts?

also in this tourney you can have 1 rebuy which is for $35.
so do we gii and be prepared to click on the re-buy option?

cheers.

all-in.

in game, i probably shove but it's close. it's unlikely that villain is overcalling with 88 in a 3-bet pot on the flop (after bet and call). it's also unlikely that villain is calling a 3b oop with A4s or A8s. which leaves 44 as the only value hand in his range. 3 combos of 44 vs. 4 combos of AQo, 1 combo of AJs and 1 combo of ATs. so we lose to 3 combos and beat 6 combos. however, if we assume he only calls oop w/ AQs and does not call with ATs, then we lose to 3 combos and beat 2 combos. it gets a lot worse, obv, if we do include 88 in his turn range.

I agree @ my_couch_pulls_out

I guess its likely that since we are very deep , v may very well come along with 4s and 8s...A4s and A8s is rather much unlikely though.

Given how deep we are, I think your 3bet sizing is pretty small and there is no way he is r/folding A4/A8s preflop imo.

Also I think raising the turn w/ a hand like AQ/AJ is a little bit optimistic from his point of view unless he is weak player so he shouldnt really have that many of those in his range IMO.

I definitely wouldn't put 44 or the suited aces that beat you out of the realm of possibility here, he's getting fantastic odds preflop with deep stacks but I'm definitely not folding anywhere.

call, jamming is sort of silly, I mean, the money's gonna get in there and it's not like you need to be protecting your hand here, when you have the best hand it's way ahead.

Interestingly....any hand that you do have beat here he's playing pretty badly imo.

We really don't beat any value do we? I think I'm nitfolding.. I doubt anyones exploiting us much..
So gross there's so few value hands though..

The rationale behind shoving is to get the money in before scare cards (from villain's perspective) show up on river (namely diamonds and possibly broadway cards). In general, I think we're more likely to get it in against a weaker range if we fast-play our hand on turn (though the fast-playing effect is strongest on boards with multiple draws, eg, two FDs, FD + OESD, etc.).

Adding A4s only adds 1 combo - Ah4h. Including A8s (in addition to A8s) could affect the decision as there are two such combos - Ah8h and Ac8c. Like I said, it's a close spot. When I occasionally do peel a 3b with a suited ace (ie, when stacks are super deep and pot is multiway), I prefer doing so with Ace-wheel hands so, if we were to include weaker suited aces, I'd think that A4s is more likely than A8s.

sure, I get what you're saying but it's not like AQ is gonna c/f on a Jd river or whatever for a half pot bet, especially in the rebuy period.

Flat now and call/bet river.

He can think he's value-raising AJ/AQ if he doesn't expect you to flat pre with AK.

Don't forget that AK (admittedly only 3 combos) is also in villains range.

Logically, if villain is willing to check/call off a certain amount of chips on a Broadway diamond river with a given range, he should be willing to put in atleast that amount of chips on the turn with at least as wide a range. In other words, it's not like he would be happier putting in a given amount of chips with AQ on a Jd river than he would on the turn. Or am I missing something obv here?

That said: Given we're in position, we can always try and get money in on river even if we flat turn and villain checks to us (on river) so flatting is probably okay here. However, as a theoretical point, I think a shove becomes more mandatory if we are oop (with all else equal) and villain has raised our (hypothetical) turn lead or if villain has 3b our (hypothetical) turn c/r.

It goes without saying, but I assume that villain's range is comprised entirely of value hands. It's not far fetched to assume that villain isn't running an elaborate multi-street bluff in a 3-bet pot while oop in such an early stage of the tourney.

This is just a sick hand. I have a bad feeling V has you, here, but in real time, I don't see myself folding either.

Major question to ask yourself is, is it worth folding in fear of V turning up 44? And, based on what you've seen thus far, what's V's range in this spot? It's <1% V is bluffing here.

In reality, we're really only worried about 44, imo. His play thus far fits this hand. His call pre is donkish, though, if he does have 44.

Unless you have a brilliant read on V's propensities, I'm not folding here. He could easily have Ax (less likely he has A8 or A4 than 44 or 88, obviously). If he is a complete fish, I could see 88, but, that's even harder to imagine than 44.

If you just flat the turn, what's your plan for a brick river? I don't see you folding on the river, so I don't see why you wouldn't either push or fold OTT. This is your chance to accumulate a lot of chips--all of which you can do serious damage w/, esp this early in a tourney--or go broke. I would elect to shove and pray V shows AQ, but be prepared to barf when he actually shows 44. Wait to barf, though.. you're still ~16% to win the hand.

how in the world is it donkish for villain to call pre with 44 getting 3.5:1 immediate odds with 40 times the bet he has to call effective behind?

+1

And yeah, what 3bet are you guys talking about? V opr to 52, MP 3bets to 159 and Hero cc the 3bet in Bu...
Anyway, i´m most likely flating his c/r and not folding, not on the re-buy period against an unknown

eh, I suppose "donkish" is not the correct terminology. V is flopping a set ~12% of the time here, so unless your factoring in implied odds, he doesn't have the odds to call this bet pre.

Do you disagree/agree w/ anything else I had to say or are you just calling me out for this terminology?

Pretty standart call pre with 44. Implied odds are more than enough.

Lol we are so underrepped here than V can raise AJ here very easily...or trying to semi bluff with DD. Just GII