Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > Tournament Poker > Midstakes MTT

Notices

Midstakes MTT Discussion and analysis of midstakes MTT strategy

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-22-2012, 02:59 AM   #1
enthusiast
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 59
$235 Deepstack JJ

171 paid, ~320 remaining
Avg stack ~50k
$1,000/$2,000/$300
9 handed

Villian (Rock) (UTG) ~$58k
Hero (UTG+1) ~$66k (3rd in chips at table)

Hero table image solid, balanced, but active last half hour due to mini-rush

Villian has never raised UTG in 5 hours playing with him. Has shown down position-appropriate hands all night and has bet them textbook standard.

Villian raises to $6k
Hero has JJ and goes all in for $66k (~30 more BB).

Is this a bad spot to be getting it in against a very tight opponent? My M is 11 but I got over 30 bbs and we're not ITM yet. However, there was the lure of a 60+BB stack in a tourney with a steep structure close to the bubble.

I put him on AQo+, AQs+, JJ+, which JJ is close to a 55/45 underdog against. We become slight favorites if we widen his opening range just slightly (99+,KQs,ATs+AQo+). Is this simply a bad spot to flip for stacks?

Would we have been better 3-betting to $12k-$15k and folding if he shoves pre? If he flats the 3-bet and the flop is all undercards, we have a tough decision if/when he ships.

What is the optimal line in this particular spot? Folding pre crossed my mind, too, which is why I ask. I snap-shoved, but felt spewey afterward, like I could have found a better spot. Got under 60 live tourneys experience so I am still a noob. Appreciate any insight here

Thank you all for your advice in advance.
MonsterFlopper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2012, 05:06 AM   #2
grinder
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 652
Re: $235 Deepstack JJ

Awkward positions, awkward stacks behind perhaps..
If table thinks you are pretty loose, you have the feeling you are not the best player at the table, I don't mind an overshove with JJ. I do think if you knock the player out, you are getting a significant amount of chips which will secure a cash and perhaps chiplead at the table. If your style is to pick up blinds easily, def go with shoving...
However, if you are not a very good postflop player("If he flats the 3-bet and the flop is all undercards, we have a tough decision if/when he ships.") Decisions are pretty straightforward playing post with let's say already 17-18BB in the middle and 25BB left in position. 2nd however, is villains std raise 3x BB? Mostly 3xBB raises from ubertight players, mean they are bladed...

I don't think villain is folding a lot here if he is a rock and we reship.
Dynamics-position advocate a shove, stacks are advocating 3b/f, Villain-3xBB raise advocates a fold.
Very close this, I think I can find a fold, but blaaah...
MasterJ009 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2012, 07:41 AM   #3
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
desperad0oo7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: near your blinds
Posts: 9,407
Re: $235 Deepstack JJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterJ009 View Post
Awkward positions, awkward stacks behind perhaps..
If table thinks you are pretty loose, you have the feeling you are not the best player at the table, I don't mind an overshove with JJ. I do think if you knock the player out, you are getting a significant amount of chips which will secure a cash and perhaps chiplead at the table. If your style is to pick up blinds easily, def go with shoving...
However, if you are not a very good postflop player("If he flats the 3-bet and the flop is all undercards, we have a tough decision if/when he ships.") Decisions are pretty straightforward playing post with let's say already 17-18BB in the middle and 25BB left in position. 2nd however, is villains std raise 3x BB? Mostly 3xBB raises from ubertight players, mean they are bladed...

I don't think villain is folding a lot here if he is a rock and we reship.
Dynamics-position advocate a shove, stacks are advocating 3b/f, Villain-3xBB raise advocates a fold.
Very close this, I think I can find a fold, but blaaah...
+1

if he doesn't flat 3bets oop then don't see much value in 3b/f. flat we get owned too much post. I fold here alot I think
desperad0oo7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2012, 08:04 AM   #4
adept
 
TrololoNoob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: former lolnoobaments.
Posts: 740
Re: $235 Deepstack JJ

Villian has never raised UTG in 5 hours playing with him. Has shown down position-appropriate hands all night and has bet them textbook standard.

if he is so tight, he is raising a very strong range frm UTG (duuuh obv). when u 3bet, being him so tight, he is only continuing with the range that murders your jacks.
u said he is very ABC, he probably doesnt have steals (some suited connectors etc) on his range. prob wont 4bet bluff.

that being said, i can see no reason for 3betting if u wanna play the hand. specially when he raises 3x, pot wont be multiway most of the time. u will be able to pay posflop. u two have stacks behind and he wont make life difficult, even with an overcard to our hand.

call or fold. its no shame to fold if villains range is going to be superstrong and he is already inflating the pot sky high by 3xing. i probably call, jacks are too strong to fold and i cant even fold 88 pre p =p.
TrololoNoob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2012, 11:41 AM   #5
old hand
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: late reggae somewhere
Posts: 1,374
Re: $235 Deepstack JJ

if your range is correct (given reads on opening ranges from other positions) then it's a fold. not only because of the odds against his range but also the 7 players still to act. also, not deep enough to 3b/fold or setmine either.

but fwiw i don't think you can range V quite this tight. given that it's live, he's only acted ~15 times UTG in five hours. quite possible he hasn't picked up a single decent hand utg. he may be using that image now, expanding his actual range to perhaps the second range you mentioned or even wider. even so, it's such a marginal spot i'd be tempted to fold.

just don't flat. you can't proceed with any certainty on a T-- flop and could easily be drawn into a b/Heroc, chk/Herobet/Vshove/Herofold or similar spot that burns half your stack.
oldsilver is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive