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 Saturday Six Max, Should I have shoved the turn?  Saturday Six Max, Should I have shoved the turn?

03-14-2015 , 09:19 AM
    Poker Stars, $20 Buy-in (75/150 blinds, 15 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    UTG: 1,296 (8.6 bb)
    Hero (MP): 5,455 (36.4 bb)
    CO: 16,528 (110.2 bb)
    BTN: 2,480 (16.5 bb)
    SB: 14,817 (98.8 bb)
    BB: 5,049 (33.7 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is MP with Q A
    UTG folds, Hero raises to 450, CO calls 450, 2 folds, BB calls 300

    Flop: (1,515) 7 4 K (3 players)
    BB checks, Hero bets 750, CO calls 750, BB folds

    Turn: (3,015) A (2 players)
    Hero bets 1,050, CO calls 1,050

    River: (5,115) K (2 players)
    Hero bets 3,190 and is all-in, CO calls 3,190



    Did I just get unlucky on the river? I wanted him to continue with all his QQ-99 when ott though I don't see him continuing with much worse either. CO is a stack abuser with 110BBs and I've been playing a solid tight style though not too loose, not continuing with too many hands. This play confused me so any help would be appreciated.
    P.S. I felt a solid TAG play worked best with my table. I don't want to risk my entire tournament life explaining why the sizing may be to small. I regret this since not enough has me beat through I was to fast play the AQ before it get beaten by too many hands.

    Last edited by VanguardOne; 03-14-2015 at 09:25 AM.
     Saturday Six Max, Should I have shoved the turn? Quote
    03-14-2015 , 07:19 PM
    I don't see what your river shove accomplishes? Are you expecting that villain floated you otf with AJ, or just flatted you ott with A7/A4? I don't see many (any) villains calling a shove on the river with 99-QQ.
     Saturday Six Max, Should I have shoved the turn? Quote
    03-14-2015 , 11:12 PM
    I like your line but I would check the river and be check calling alot
     Saturday Six Max, Should I have shoved the turn? Quote
    03-15-2015 , 12:07 PM
    mid stages, everyone wants to build a stack at this point, especially since were deep (especially him) and it plays like a cash game where triple barrels are common place. I know he can flat with most ace rags and he will call me pretty wide. That said there aren't many non-kings besides ace rags.
    Table dynamics been going long enough to get the feel. So far my feel hasn't let me down unless I was up with 2nd nuts against the one possible nut hand like I've been many times recently.
     Saturday Six Max, Should I have shoved the turn? Quote
    03-15-2015 , 05:06 PM
    Pretty much what Dragon said, but what are some alternative lines/sizing with OP's stack?
    C/C river?

    Anyone c/f (or c/c) flop 3-way? Anyone shove turn as played?
     Saturday Six Max, Should I have shoved the turn? Quote
    03-16-2015 , 11:17 AM
    blockbet.
    would bet like 1.4k on river and fold against jam.
     Saturday Six Max, Should I have shoved the turn? Quote
    03-16-2015 , 01:29 PM
    I think river is an easy x/f, without any dynamics
     Saturday Six Max, Should I have shoved the turn? Quote
    03-19-2015 , 08:32 AM
    I don't think there is any need to shove on the turn.
    I don't think there is any need to shove on the river.

    On the turn, if villain is behind, he likely has a maximum of 5 outs (a flush draw is very unlikely at this points and the only strong draw that villain calls with on the flop if 56...). So making a smallish bet like you did is fine imo. You could make it a little bigger, but shoving makes too many worse hands fold imo.

    On the river, the bet/shove is pretty bad imo. What are you trying to get value from? Some ace-rag that tried to float on the flop, was happy to get real value on the turn and calls you off on the river? QQ-99 most probably folded by now. A7 or A4 might still be in there, but those would raise the turn quite often. 56 or any other strangely played hand with no value or close to none, won't call your bet, but might try to bluff you (hence a check/call is probably better than a shove).

    Most of the time, I will check/fold here, because a lot of players tend to assume that we couldn't fold an ace here, so will rarely bet with worse than an ace, and even a good one at that. If we have dynamics and villain tends to bet a lot and we tend to fold a lot to him, I will find a check/call.
     Saturday Six Max, Should I have shoved the turn? Quote
    03-21-2015 , 01:12 PM
    Hate the river shoving also.

    Almost all hands that you beat are not calling the shove. And if you shove turn you are folding all hands that you are beating.
     Saturday Six Max, Should I have shoved the turn? Quote
    03-21-2015 , 06:42 PM
    okay thanks guys, I knew it was a bad leak of mine. Now fixed. Trying to play an optimal game and moves like this I just don't give enough thought to when on the spot. I like constructive criticism to my play. Oh, and he had KQ
     Saturday Six Max, Should I have shoved the turn? Quote
    03-26-2015 , 08:12 AM
    Flop is possibly a x/f.

    Turn jam would be reasonable with some Ax hands and flush draws.

    River looks like a x/f.
     Saturday Six Max, Should I have shoved the turn? Quote

          
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