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Midstakes MTT Discussion and analysis of midstakes MTT strategy

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Old 06-22-2012, 05:27 AM   #1
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$22 on Pacific - TPGK v fish(?) facing river overbet

Only 10 hands on villain 50/30. Obviously a meaningless sample size but given Pacific is fish infested I think we can cautiously assume he is likely to be a fish. I welcome thoughts on all streets - mainly posting it because of the river overbet. It polarised his range and I called it off because the pot was too juicy. (Also - I know pfr should be larger - was being lazy and clicked the 3/4 pot button).

    Pacific, $22 Buy-in (15/30 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 8 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #13300002

    MP3: 3,735 (124.5 bb)
    CO: 3,825 (127.5 bb)
    BTN: 2,593 (86.4 bb)
    SB: 2,943 (98.1 bb)
    BB: 2,129 (71 bb)
    UTG+2: 2,793 (93.1 bb)
    MP1: 3,401 (113.4 bb)
    Hero (MP2): 4,906 (163.5 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K Q
    2 folds, Hero raises to 78, 4 folds, BB calls 48

    Flop: (171) 2 5 K (2 players)
    BB checks, Hero bets 99, BB calls 99

    Turn: (369) 9 (2 players)
    BB checks, Hero bets 189, BB raises to 378, Hero calls 189

    River: (1,125) 3 (2 players)
    BB bets 1,574 and is all-in, Hero calls 1,574



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    Old 06-22-2012, 06:03 AM   #2
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    Re: $22 on Pacific - TPGK v fish(?) facing river overbet

    This deep preante, I don't mind a 3x BB raise pre, but w/e
    good sizing. Turn is either a 3b-shove or a fold to me. Stacks after turn may assume he is firing river big and never releasing.
    Fold now...
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    Old 06-22-2012, 06:17 AM   #3
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    Re: $22 on Pacific - TPGK v fish(?) facing river overbet

    More pre
    More flop
    More turn/f

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MasterJ009 View Post
    Turn is either a 3b-shove or a fold to me.
    How is 3bshoving turn better than calling down?

    Last edited by V-Delaney; 06-22-2012 at 06:24 AM.
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    Old 06-22-2012, 06:57 AM   #4
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    Re: $22 on Pacific - TPGK v fish(?) facing river overbet

    turn is never a 3bet without further reads/dynamic/hsitory. specially from these positions.

    if its Btn vs blinds or BW you could make and arguement for 3betting, but also not going to the best without history.

    if u wanna continue with ur hand, when u 3bet or 3betshove the turn, villain folds his bluffs. not also u dont let him bluff the river. but when u get called is always by a range u r behind. u dont give a chance to fold the river, dunno, check/decice it. also sometimes, a weird diamond falls on the river, and villain is bad and doesnt v-bets as thin as he should be vbetting a better hand than ours.

    i agree with v-delaney, bet/fold turn. but when villain makes so small im calling to decide on the river. probably c/folding to this shove.
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    Old 06-22-2012, 08:04 AM   #5
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    Re: $22 on Pacific - TPGK v fish(?) facing river overbet

    Just wanna say that if hero is convinced he has the best hand, he better shoves the turn, because with these stacks villain is likely to make a bet with no FE on river. And than it is our decision to make. If we shove ourselves the decision is his and I do think there are hands in his range that could make a riverbluff e.g. A9dd. Obv a riverbet big sized or shove is hard to call for us.
    I b/f turn almost every time though...
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    Old 06-22-2012, 08:10 AM   #6
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    Re: $22 on Pacific - TPGK v fish(?) facing river overbet

    cmon dude, noooooooooooooo.

    if hero is convinced he has the best hand he CALLs.
    for all the reasons i have already written above.

    what matters whose decision is to make? its not like villain is calling the flop, raising the turn with KT everytime and this is the predominant part of his range: hands that are calling the flop, raising the turn for value, and we are ahead of it.

    i said it, if u shove he cant bluff you anymore!
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    Old 06-22-2012, 12:28 PM   #7
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    Re: $22 on Pacific - TPGK v fish(?) facing river overbet

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by V-Delaney View Post
    More pre
    More flop
    More turn/f
    Completely agree I need more pre. I bet only a little over half pot on the later streets as I wanted him to stick around - that might be a leak I have but it's a hard one to measure I suppose.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TrololoNoob View Post
    turn is never a 3bet without further reads/dynamic/hsitory. specially from these positions.

    if its Btn vs blinds or BW you could make and arguement for 3betting, but also not going to the best without history.

    if u wanna continue with ur hand, when u 3bet or 3betshove the turn, villain folds his bluffs. not also u dont let him bluff the river. but when u get called is always by a range u r behind. u dont give a chance to fold the river, dunno, check/decice it. also sometimes, a weird diamond falls on the river, and villain is bad and doesnt v-bets as thin as he should be vbetting a better hand than ours.
    Definitely agree with this - this was why I called the turn and planned on reassessing the river. When he overbet the river I tended towards a call because he is so polarised. I felt a busted diamond draw was in his range, as is some fishy air he might have played on with. I posted this hand as despite the call being profitable, I did feel it was a bit of a spewey call. Full history if you're interested:

      Pacific, $22 Buy-in (15/30 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 8 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #13303762

      MP3: 3,735 (124.5 bb)
      CO: 3,825 (127.5 bb)
      BTN: 2,593 (86.4 bb)
      SB: 2,943 (98.1 bb)
      BB: 2,129 (71 bb)
      UTG+2: 2,793 (93.1 bb)
      MP1: 3,401 (113.4 bb)
      Hero (MP2): 4,906 (163.5 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K Q
      2 folds, Hero raises to 78, 4 folds, BB calls 48

      Flop: (171) 2 5 K (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets 99, BB calls 99

      Turn: (369) 9 (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets 189, BB raises to 378, Hero calls 189

      River: (1,125) 3 (2 players)
      BB bets 1,574 and is all-in, Hero calls 1,574

      Spoiler:



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      Old 06-22-2012, 12:41 PM   #8
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      Re: $22 on Pacific - TPGK v fish(?) facing river overbet

      think flop/turn sizing is fine.

      dont 3b turn

      river is close. he's repping a very narrow range and doesnt jam sets like that otr. prob call sometimes and fold sometimes

      and never folding to c/mr ott
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