$215 125k, 62s strange spot with river flush - MTT Poker Strategy

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$215 125k, 62s strange spot with river flush

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04-12-2015 , 01:55 PM

tboneparte

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Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,378

2nd level of WPN 215 125k, no real reads yet. What do we think of turn lead? on river is c/f missing value or is b/f too thin?

Blinds 30/60
Hero (7261) is bb and dealt 6

HJ (12820) raises to 180, Button (12220) calls 180, SB (9700) calls 150, Hero calls 120

Flop (720): Q

3 checks, button bets 300, sb calls, hero calls, HJ folds

Turn (1620): Q

sb checks, hero bets 888, HJ calls, sb calls

River (4284):Q

sb checks, hero?

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04-12-2015 , 04:58 PM

gregz41

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Squeeeeeeze pre flop vs all those capped ranged. Make it like 900.

Make it like 1800 now because you have close to 0 bluffs, I think.

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04-12-2015 , 05:36 PM

betgo

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Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 28,590

I would fold preflop to the 3x OOP.

Squeeze is bad: you are building a big pot OOP with junk. This early, they will call to see a flop a lot.

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04-12-2015 , 08:18 PM

gregz41

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Quote:

Originally Posted by betgo

I would fold preflop to the 3x OOP.

Squeeze is bad: you are building a big pot OOP with junk. This early, they will call to see a flop a lot.

What hands do you want to bluff with then?

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04-12-2015 , 09:13 PM

betgo

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Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 28,590

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregz41

What hands do you want to bluff with then?

If you are going to bluff here, maybe T8s. You want a hand you can see a flop with OOP. It doesn't matter if it has some value to flat with.

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04-12-2015 , 09:57 PM

cicakman

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Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 9,229

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregz41

Squeeeeeeze pre flop vs all those capped ranged. Make it like 900.

Make it like 1800 now because you have close to 0 bluffs, I think.

Lol

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04-13-2015 , 08:16 AM

gregz41

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Quote:

Originally Posted by betgo

If you are going to bluff here, maybe T8s. You want a hand you can see a flop with OOP. It doesn't matter if it has some value to flat with.

I'd say it does matter. In poker you're range selection pre flop should go something along the lines of:

Fold worst
Bluff 3bet raise
Call
3bet value raise

By 3betting T8s you bluff really far up your range, and if you bluff T8s, do you then 3bet T9s, 98s 76s etc? You're just going to have way too many 3bet bluffs by taking this approach.

Here I'm advocating choosing a hand that appears very low down our range of hands we continue with and turning it into a bluff. We can flat a lot of suited hands profitably but that doesn't mean we should turn the higher ones into 3bet bluffs.

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04-13-2015 , 09:05 AM

betgo

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Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 28,590

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregz41

This is level 2 of the tournament. This is not the same as late tournament situations where you are restealing against an raiser who may just be trying to take blinds and antes. If you bluff 3-bet, you are getting flat called a lot.

So I wouldn't worry if you are turning a hand with slight calling value into a bluff. You can also figure out the right bluff frequency without basing it rigidly on your hand. You are going to be seeing a flop OOP with a big pot a lot and you don't want to be doing it with 62s. Not sure this is a such a good situation to bluff though.

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04-13-2015 , 09:13 AM

mashxx

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I think you got carried away Greg. Hard to fold pre but with 3 gapper it's a close fold imo. Otherwise this hand is out of my league, no idea why are you leading turn (I'm sure you had some rationale - curious to hear about it) and river is honestly tough three way, I don't see us getting called by worse if we bet. Never played on WPN and no idea what's the level of players there in sunday $215.

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04-13-2015 , 09:17 AM

#10

gamboneee

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Quote:

By 3betting T8s you bluff really far up your range, and if you bluff T8s, do you then 3bet T9s, 98s 76s etc? You're just going to have way too many 3bet bluffs by taking this approach.

its not really fair to claim this when you havent said what any cut off for your range groups are. why ask if hes gonna 3b t9s and not retort if are you gonna sqz 53s, 42s, 63s, etc?

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04-13-2015 , 09:36 AM

#11

gregz41

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Quote:

Originally Posted by gamboneee

its not really fair to claim this when you havent said what any cut off for your range groups are. why ask if hes gonna 3b t9s and not retort if are you gonna sqz 53s, 42s, 63s, etc?

It should include these types of hands, yes.

For value we have 99+ AQ+

We then have a huge % of hands we want to flat because of the odds.

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04-13-2015 , 09:59 AM

#12

betgo

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Quote:

Originally Posted by gregz41

It should include these types of hands, yes.

For value we have 99+ AQ+

We then have a huge % of hands we want to flat because of the odds.

What is your plan for a 4-bet if you 3-bet AQ/99?

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04-13-2015 , 11:54 AM

#13

user12345

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Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 3,737

Why do you lead turn T?

Greg if we end up in 4 way 3bet pot can we call it a successful bluff preflop?

I get we do better in hu pot with 62s but here defending bb vs 3x and getting that price I think it's about calling or folding.

I'd choose some A8o hand this case which have rio issues multiway if I'm so desperate to squeeze da monkeys.

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04-13-2015 , 11:57 AM

#14

hitchens97

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Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2,455

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregz41

It should include these types of hands, yes.

For value we have 99+ AQ+

We then have a huge % of hands we want to flat because of the odds.

And the hands we should flat are the ones with the highest implied odds since this is multiway. So T9s is a perfect hand to flat.

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04-13-2015 , 01:12 PM

#15

tboneparte

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Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,378

Quote:

Originally Posted by mashxx

no idea why are you leading turn (I'm sure you had some rationale - curious to hear about it) and river is honestly tough three way, I don't see us getting called by worse if we bet. Never played on WPN and no idea what's the level of players there in sunday $215.

Quote:

Originally Posted by user12345

Why do you lead turn T?

edit to OP on turn where its button and not HJ.

I lead turn because:
1) We have good equity.
2) Value and protection vs other fd.
3) Perceived as fairly strong vs semi capped ranges.
4) Additional opportunity to win the hand and gives us initiative on river.

OTOH we can c/c turn and hope for villain to check back his sd value for free river, kinda gross to me with such weak fd (esp if sb continues vs button bet) and also because will be tougher for us to get value with our 6 and 2 binks. Interested in opinions.

Edit: c/r anyone?

The skill level of this tourney was fairly low, 2nd biggest gtd of their tourney series and had ton of satellites.

Last edited by tboneparte; 04-13-2015 at 01:35 PM.

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04-13-2015 , 02:14 PM

#16

tboneparte

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Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,378

and i suppose ranges aren't all too capped but would be reasonable to remove a % of combos imo because of sizing from button and no raise from sb.

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04-13-2015 , 03:02 PM

#17

gregz41

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Quote:

Originally Posted by betgo

What is your plan for a 4-bet if you 3-bet AQ/99?

Depends how big the 4bet is, however AQ is almost always going to be a flat because 4bets are polarised and we have amazing blockers.

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04-13-2015 , 03:06 PM

#18

gregz41

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Quote:

Originally Posted by user12345

Greg if we end up in 4 way 3bet pot can we call it a successful bluff preflop?

Well no, but it doesn't happen 100%.

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04-13-2015 , 04:55 PM

#19

user12345

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Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 3,737

Jk Greg ldo

I think you dontt have enough fe + equity to push ott
C/c is the play to keep ranges wider and to potentially lead rivers when improved vs capped ranges or bluffcatch rivers if BTN(hj) bets turn.

Even more legit line in soft field.

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04-15-2015 , 07:55 PM

#20

LittleGoliath

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Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 3,921

Meh don't fold pre

Could see the arguments for a possible squueze, think we should go relatively small on the river, something in the neigbourhood of 1500 seems good/fine

It's fairly close tho, whether we want to bet this or not. Might be a check vs good opponents

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04-25-2015 , 12:53 PM

#21

Sai Fon

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 206

Squeezing pre is pretty meh this early. As played I like bet folding the river.

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