Hi!
Have been thinking a lot about ranges and equities lately and I am still a bit confused about some spots:

Let's say you are in LP with 20BB's and an active player opens 3x from MP with a similar stack. Let's just say this is a good re-stealing spot based on tournament stage, other stack-sizes, table-dynamics and your table-image.

Isn't it better to push suited connectors and hands such as A2s instead of AJo and other medium-strenght hands? If he is calling a push with 5% (TT+ and AQ+), a hand such as 43s has almost 3% more equity than ATo if called, but for some reason most people think 43s is a snap-fold here while they happily shove ATo!

Was watching ElkY stream Scoop yesterday, when a similar spot came up 6-handed on FT. He had AJo and 26BBs. He folded, but said it would've been a clear re-steal shove if he had closer to 20BB's. In his book "Raisers' Edge" he is talking about how 20BB is an awesome re-steal stack and similar stuff is in the "Kill Everyone" book, but I think they have got the ranges a bit wrong?!

My reasoning is that hands such as AJo are terrible to re-steal with (as long as villains calling range is limited to top 5%) because your goal is to get a FOLD so your hand doesn't matter, and if villain happens to wake up with the top of his range, you are in worse shape compared to if you had pushed with a hand with more equity against his calling range. I guess the only upside for pushing AJo-A6o hands is that you have a "blocker" to his Ax combos...

By including hands as weak as 43s, I am obviously not suggesting you should be re-stealing with a range of 85%, you should still push a tighter range than he is opening with - just replace some hands in that pushing range with hands that have more equity if called.

Any thoughts?
Good articles, forum-posts, training-vids or books on this topic?

I don't think you can compare the equity of a single hand to another. You have to construct a range.

It's a matter of equilibriums.

Take a spot where you 3b shove 77/AJ/ATs and villain calls with 99/AQ

Villain is folding 88 (great when you push Aj) or AT (great if you push 77) cause they don't have the odds to call against your strong range.

Obviously if you start 3bettibg wider villain should widen his calling range.

But even if you just replace Aj/ATs by 20 combos of low suited connectors, the equity of villain vs your range with 88/AJ etc will increase and he'll be able to call wider profitably.

I had a similar discussion about pairs once : if villain calls 99/AQ you have almost as much equity when pushing 22 than 77. But obviously villain will adjust

I do think the OP brings up an interesting point, and one I've thought about before.

I'll give another example. Someone will put someone on a TT+, AJo+, and say the stacks and situation is such that shoving 99 against this range is good. Well if 99 is good, then doesn't 22 have more or less the same equity (yes, I know counterfeiting is more likely to get you, but it doesn't make that much difference).

Oh, thank you very much for the explanation jungix - that makes a lot of sense!!

Obviously villain will adjust his calling range if low pairs/sc go to showdown - now he will be able to call profitably with a wider range because now his AJ/AT hands etc. will have better equity against my 3betting range if there is a "gap" in it. So yeah, it's all about equilibriums!!

Have just been thinking too much in terms of "what do I want to accomplish in this spot" rather then considering the whole long-term optimal play. Shoving AT just feels pretty awkward knowing you will be a big underdog if you run into the top of villains range..

However, pushing 56s instead of ATo could still work awesomely against weak players who will fail to adjust, or in live-games where you never might play against the same opponent again. So I guess the first thing to consider would be: should I play optimally or exploitatively against this opponent in this spot and then go from there.

i'd say the most important considerations are:

1. relative stack sizes & icm effects, presence of other short stacks not in the hand - i.e. what will it cost my opponent to call and lose at this particular stage of the tournament? will V have an icm disaster calling and losing with AQ here, or even AK?

2. opponent position, opening frequency and sometimes live tells - i.e. an honest assessment of their range. attack the players who are opening wider and more often. don't attack the V who's opened once in 2 orbits and appears scared. sometimes the bunny has the gun.

you can use a 10-20BB stack like a club against frequent late position stealers with 20BB-30BB stacks. i'll 3bet jam about twice as often as I'll open into a series of 10-20BB stacks behind me. in a $550 6max live FT last night, i had the short stack 5 handed and 4 handed, but due to a great structure never went below 12BB. i 3bet jammed to a win (icm chopped with CL) and never picked up better than AQ along the way. my ranges were waayy wider than some of the stated ranges above, and my chips went into the pot first on all but one occasion (calling a ss button shove with A7 4 handed and holding against 86s - we then chopped 3 handed).

you can't really wait around for premiums in a short-handed or fast structure event, so look for good situations as much (if not more) than good cards.

as for your specific question regarding best ranges, i'd suggest that Ax card removal is slightly more important than equity vv opponent raise/call ranges, but look less at marginal equity differences in your jamming range than at the right situations to jam. if V calls and you're jamming light then you're screwed so often that the difference between 68s and A9o becomes largely irrelevant.

Note: 6max ranges are certainly wider, but the same dynamic can appear in 9max mtts, especially when you start moving to the last couple of tables then mid-late FT stages and go short-handed.

watching the scoop final tables, even 20bb with half hour blinds there is still plenty of time. if it gets to a four bet pre there is high chance AA or KK , the 3 bet would fold AK unless chip leader. i dont think at this level 20bb is shoving A2s. i might be wrong

I haven't watched any scoop final tables, but this statement looks strange to me. Would be interested in other opinions. If a simple 3-bet folds out AK and only KK+ would dare a 4-bet, this looks hugely exploitable to me. Unless icm is that high, but it can't be much higher than any other tournament armt the same stage. Only better potential for scared money lying around.

1. The objective of the hand here is the key - - stealing. Therefore situation > your cards.

2. Regarding ranges - Vs the top 8% (66+ and premium broadway) which i expect a looser player you describe(probably with a largish stack) will call with, your equity when holding random broadway stuff and k9, j10 , a9 etc is 37%. Vs any suited connector is 32% and vs some junk offsuited gap connectors is 28%. Therefore, if you want to give yourself the best chance of surviving when your initial objective fails then a range around A10off is better. However, there is nothing wrong with suited stuff if within your strategy you are willing to expose yourself to the greater risk of getting eliminated should you get called.


3. On the Elky spot, i expect he isn't in re-steal mode with 26BB as he feels he can wait for better spots to grow his stack. 20BB his strategy must change...

4. Lastly, I wouldn't be concerned about the villain seeing a weaker re-steal range as in this scenario he has called and either you are out...or you now have 40BB and can slow right down. Actually, if anything this image will benefit you in future hands as he may widen his calling/4bet range as you are narrowing yours.