|
|
| Midstakes MTT Discussion and analysis of midstakes MTT strategy |
06-09-2012, 12:14 PM
|
#1
|
|
centurion
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 121
|
€20 ICM question
Villain is random in godmode, not playing crap but getting decent hands a winning every race.
Normally this should be easy shove but I hesitated here for a while, with guy like this one having all the chips and 4 other guys having ~20bb.
Do you shove here? And more importantly, can you recommend me some good ICM calculator where I can run this? I only know this one:
http://www.holdemresources.net/hr/sn...00&s7=&s8=&s9=
which indicates ship, but I can't adjust his range there (I guess he might call any Ax).
Payouts are 20%, 15%, 11%, 9%, 6% and 5%.
Poker Stars €18+€2 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t1500/t3000 Blinds + t375 - 6 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter
BTN: t60407 M = 8.95
Hero (SB): t59948 M = 8.88
BB: t322425 M = 47.77
UTG: t56636 M = 8.39
MP: t70698 M = 10.47
CO: t71886 M = 10.65
Pre Flop: (t6750) Hero is SB with J  K
4 folds, Hero ...
|
|
|
06-09-2012, 12:58 PM
|
#2
|
|
banned
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,043
|
Re: €20 ICM question
You have 20bb. It`s far from an easy shove w/ big stack on BB whether it`s ft or not. Not saying shoving is bad, but very high variance move.
I`d balance mr/x-ing most of my opening range.
|
|
|
06-09-2012, 02:11 PM
|
#3
|
|
veteran
Join Date: May 2010
Location: we don't waste no precious time
Posts: 3,325
|
Re: €20 ICM question
ICM barely comes into consideration here given you're basically the short stack and the flat payouts.
Shoving is far from being a high variance play since it allows to you to get the last bet in and maximizes your FE.
It'd be great to know a bit more about villains preflop tendencies when deciding whether to r/call or to shove (I'm gonna go ahead and say that r/folding so much equity BvB is terrible assuming villain isn't a massive nit).
Shove if he's your standard french guy who's just going to flat all bad and mediocre hands he doesn't feel super confident about shoving and only is going to shove pretty strong stuff on you, raise/call if he actually tries to put pressure on as we do really well against a decent reshoving range.
|
|
|
06-09-2012, 02:17 PM
|
#4
|
|
banned
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,043
|
Re: €20 ICM question
Yes, at some point, mr/c can be better than open-shoving.
|
|
|
06-09-2012, 02:17 PM
|
#5
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,337
|
Re: €20 ICM question
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephants_pride
You have 20bb. It`s far from an easy shove w/ big stack on BB whether it`s ft or not. Not saying shoving is bad, but very high variance move.
I`d balance mr/x-ing most of my opening range.
|
min raising in the small blind vs the big blind is a bit of a leak.
this shove is unexploitable.
|
|
|
06-09-2012, 02:20 PM
|
#6
|
|
banned
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,043
|
Re: €20 ICM question
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregz41
min raising in the small blind vs the big blind is a bit of a leak.
this shove is unexploitable.
|
Isn`t it a bit too deep?
And if we`ll talk about this exact spot you`d prefer to have wide open-shoving range and openfold everything else? How would you balance?
|
|
|
06-09-2012, 02:37 PM
|
#7
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,337
|
Re: €20 ICM question
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephants_pride
Isn`t it a bit too deep?
And if we`ll talk about this exact spot you`d prefer to have wide open-shoving range and openfold everything else? How would you balance?
|
I think the chubukov number for KJo means we can shove 25bb unexploitably in a heads up situation.
As to balancing, lately I just don't think there is any point in a $20 tournament. If we were deeper I'll consider my other options but this shove nets profit.
|
|
|
06-09-2012, 03:25 PM
|
#8
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Location
Posts: 5,386
|
Re: €20 ICM question
easy shove or limp/shove
|
|
|
06-09-2012, 03:43 PM
|
#9
|
|
banned
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,043
|
Re: €20 ICM question
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregz41
I think the chubukov number for KJo means we can shove 25bb unexploitably in a heads up situation.
As to balancing, lately I just don't think there is any point in a $20 tournament. If we were deeper I'll consider my other options but this shove nets profit.
|
No no, I`m not questioning ev expectation of this shove (as I`ve stated), but asking if it`s optimal at this spot?
|
|
|
06-09-2012, 04:13 PM
|
#10
|
|
enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 60
|
Re: €20 ICM question
if you minraise he gets 3.x:1 to play in position , so if he's a thinking opponent he can call a lot there.I'd prefer making it about 2.8 BB. However if you have reason to assume he will be shoving light I'd shove, which is unexploitable
|
|
|
06-09-2012, 06:01 PM
|
#11
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,337
|
Re: €20 ICM question
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephants_pride
No no, I`m not questioning ev expectation of this shove (as I`ve stated), but asking if it`s optimal at this spot?
|
I'd probably shove vs someone who i percieve as competent just because we'll be out of position with only 20bb and not a lot of moves to make. In this case I think shoving may be optimal given the way the OP described villain.
It's hard to have a massive edge in a tournament with only 20bb so I'd need extremely strong reads to consider another option.
|
|
|
06-09-2012, 06:47 PM
|
#12
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 5,511
|
Re: €20 ICM question
like a 2.XX raise or limp here.
nothing wrong with miniraise imo, we have ~20bb and he sucks I have no problem giving him a price to defend a bucnh of dumb **** he'll fold on the flop most of the time
|
|
|
06-11-2012, 08:00 AM
|
#13
|
|
enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 60
|
Re: €20 ICM question
on the other side, what do you do if you are in the BB and get minraised here? I dont know if id give up more then 30%, because i know he has to fold at least 75% cause of ICM if i push. Also if we are a little deeper i consider calling about any suited and hope to get the goods or to outplay him postflop. This is why i hate minraising from the button.
|
|
|
06-11-2012, 11:05 AM
|
#14
|
|
veteran
Join Date: May 2010
Location: we don't waste no precious time
Posts: 3,325
|
Re: €20 ICM question
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephant106
[...] because i know he has to fold at least 75% cause of ICM if i push.
|
How/why does ICM apply in this hand?
|
|
|
06-11-2012, 11:39 AM
|
#15
|
|
adept
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Vienna
Posts: 949
|
Re: €20 ICM question
Quote:
|
Do you shove here? And more importantly, can you recommend me some good ICM calculator where I can run this?
|
Same site, downloadable version
And it seems like the 75%-fold above is actually a pretty close guess.
Interesting spot to play around with mixed minraise and shoving ranges. BU plays roughly half of his range as minraise, and half as shove here. (KJo being played as minraise/fold.)
| | | | | Amt. | Player | Range | | R | | | | 6.0k | BU | 9.4%, TT+ AKs A9o-A4o KTo+ | | | 3B | | | 60k | SB | 7.7%, QQ+ A7s+ A5s-A2s AQo+ KQs KQo | | | | 4B | | 322k | BB | 6.5%, 66+ AQs+ AQo+ | | | | | C | 54k | BU | 0.9%, KK+ | | | | C | | 54k | BU | 1.7%, QQ+ AKs | | | 3B | | | 322k | BB | 48.2%, 99+ 77-22 Kx+ Q2s+ Q8o+ Q6o J2s+ JTo T7s+ 87s 76s 65s 53s+ 43s | | | | C | | 54k | BU | 2.6%, TT+ AKs | | R | | | | 60k | BU | 10.9%, 99-66 AQs-A3s ATo+ K9s+ QTs+ JTs | | | C | | | 58k | SB | 5.1%, 99+ AQs+ AQo+ | | | | C | | 57k | BB | 3.5%, TT+ AKs AKo | | | C | | | 57k | BB | 8.6%, 66+ ATs+ ATo+ | | R | | | | 6.0k | SB | 10.4%, TT+ K7s-K4s KTo-K4o Q9o | | | 3B | | | 322k | BB | 59.5%, TT+ 88 66-22 Qx+ J2s+ J7o+ T2s+ T9o 97s+ 86s+ 75s+ 63s+ 52s+ 42s+ 32s | | | | C | | 54k | SB | 2.4%, TT+ | | R | | | | 60k | SB | 26.4%, 99-22 A2s+ A3o+ K8s+ KJo+ Q8s+ QTo+ J8s+ JTo T8s+ 98s | | | C | | | 57k | BB | 14.2%, 33+ A7s+ A8o+ KJs+ KQo |
|
|
|
| Thread Tools |
|
|
| Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:06 PM.
|