It's 2 1/2 hours into a live deep stack (25,000 TC) MTT with about 60 entrants and only a handful gone. The blinds are 200/400 and I have 19,500 TC on the button. EP raises to 1,200; MP calls; I raise to 3,500 with KK; EP & MP call, everyone else folds. No read on EP; new to the table although appears to be a regular. MP is very loose. Into the flop with 11,500 in the pot. Flop is Q83 rainbow, EP goes all in and has me covered, MP folds; what's my move?

This is the first hand I've posted in a while and this is an area that I've identified as a big leak in my game which is getting too attached to a great starting hand and making poor decisions when faced with aggression.

Being an uncoordinated rainbow flop, is not very common they will show up with a set here. In this spots I always call, ost of the time it will be KQ/AQ or even worse... He knows you are gonna bet almos 100%, so why make you fold if he can get your cbet also?

In a deep live tournament, still with such a playable stack I would fold this, simply because its not worth even though sometimes he will show up with some worst 1 pair hand.
I see many bad players doing this move with nut hands, especially in live tournaments players tend to overvalue their tournament life, so he would need a really strong hand to go allin there.

Online I would snap

snapcall

OP, there is math behind the answer. What range do you put V on? (hint unless he shows you AA or QQ - both of which would be horribly played to jam here - you can calculate your equity quickly enough to realize that it is a snap-call).

Agree. Snap-call. He doesn't have aces or he would have 4-bet you pre-flop. On a dry board if he had flopped a set the shove is a terrible play because it might get you to fold and he wants you to call. He could certainly have flopped two pair if he's donky enough to call your 3-bet with Q-8 suited, but even then you have outs and will pick up more after the turn. Much more likely he's A-Q or K-Q or even JJ.

If I bust out early in this kind of tourney on KK in that spot, it's just bad luck and I went out on good cards in a good spot. If you're playing to win the tournament, this is a chance to double-up. No guts, no glory. If you're going to wait until you're 100% sure you have the nuts before you make an all-in call, it will be a long wait.

Oh my. Folding here is silly. No way he has a set or AA here given the action.

No matter what the villain had there, its a terrible play. Unless he is a sicko and have some real reason to do that, and Im 99,99% sure its not the case.

This open shove otf has to be value. There is no way this player is deciding to open jamm this flop 3 way after a 3-bet as a complete bluff, especially on a live tournament, where even the biggest donkeys dont want to go out early.

If we think about the value hands he could do that I think it would be close to AA, KK, QQ, 88, 33, AQ, KQ, Q8. From those hands we beat only AQ and KQ and our equity is about 44% and we are certainly not getting odds to call that...

Online I would snap call because there are much more players doing dumb stuff because they can simply open another tournament right away.

Well we do get odds to get it in with 44% and probally have over 70 vs range

lol I'd have my chips in before MP even acted...
seems silly to think twice..

He raised 3x pre from EP, then flatted your 3x 3b then shoves into 2 players who have shown strength on a Q high rainbow board. Can he really be so terrible to do this with just AQ or KQ?? Man I dunno, he would have to be very, very bad. Any way you cut it he played this bad. Seems like AA, or even middle set that is scared one of you is going to hit an overcard to match your pair with a higher set...as much as I would hate to fold, and it definitely wouldn't be easy, I think I would let this go. If players at this tourney are really this bad you will have plenty of other good spots where you won't have to be guessing so much for your tourney life.

Well I snap called and the villain showed AA and I'm out of the tournament. My problem with the hand is V's all in bet. Flatting with AA is becoming more popular but in this case risky with a LAG that hasn't acted yet. V should also anticipate a C-bet on the flop and then go over the top? Could his whole strategy have been to act like a bluff to induce my call or is his all-in bet just a bad play?

In any event I'm thinking that a fold would've been better and not just because of hindsight but because a fold would have left me with 16,000 TC (40 BB) and other opportunities later. Without a good read on the villain am I better off trying to double up or preserve my chips this early in the tournament?

Being a live tournament Im 100% with preserving your stack. You have only 3,5k invested in the pot, no need to call a huge overpot pot shove for your tournament life where you are more often than not losing, even though you have the right odds and its +cEV in the long run (yeah, I realized that you have the odds to call with 44% vs his range) I think its still a marginal spot we can avoid, especially still 40BB deep.

LMAO. Good to know that there are still nits in the live MTT world.

Laugh all you want and you would be out of this particular tourney. I'm often one of the most aggressive players at the table, and I would've made this fold.

Yeah, you may say Im a nit... I just dont like calling off my stack when Im losing more often than not, still having 40BB behind to play. I think I can play my 40BB pretty well to put it all on this spot...

Actually now that I know so many good players on this forum would snap this, I think I may try playing my strong hands like this once in awhile. Must be +EV to shove AA here since so many would call with worse. Sure once in awhile you are going to get snapped by a set, but why not shove this from V's viewpoint since it will look so fishy and you will obviously get called by a whole range of worse hands, judging from responses here.

True enough, but first you have to play your AA like a fool pre-flop. I can't believe that the guy was willing to be in a 3-way flop out of position when he had the chance to 4-bet the Aces. If he's willing to take that chance and hope that (a) neither opponent will hit the flop hard enough to bust his aces, and (b) that somebody has a strong enough hand post-flop to call the all-in shove -- well, that's a bet I hope he keeps taking because he won't win that way very often.

Yeah good point, I would 4b AA there like almost always. Would have to feel especially gambly and tricky to just flat. True, it looks bad and I too think it's bad, but it can be an aggressive play that I don't think is wholly without merit if you wanted to mix it in sometimes, especially if you think the 3bettor is tight enough that he would fold to your 4b.

Anyone saying to fold this, can you please get on all 4s so i can teabag the sh*t out of you?

He had AA this time, what do you expect him to do with AQ/KQ type hands? or JJ? or QJ?

I would expect him to fold AQ/KQ and QJ preflop to a 3b with another player behind him. JJ I would expect him to check/fold the flop.

As to your other suggestion, are you even old enough to be having such fantasies young man?? Shame on you, I'm going to tell your mother...

at least he didn't have quad 6s

snapcalling

I don't understand why that is a terrible thread at all. The board doesn't have any meritable draws for V to PSB turn the to 3x over shove river as a bluff.

must snap call here in this $ lvl live mtt...seen open shoves with far worse than KQ with this kind of action. just sucked he had AA which was really odd (thus proving the suck factor?)