$109 turbo turn line check vs crusher
10-28-2014
, 10:04 PM
Was grinding mtops.... 
Yeah, I`ve missed the point of your first post.
My excuses sir...
I found odd statement this turn card is better for his range (on range vs range basis) considering you both have widish ranges going into turn (having wide perceived ranges otf), you have more FDs going into flop and he might raise some NFDs otf, let alone his range vs your actual hand which blocks so many flushes he floats plus 864hhh texture specifically destroys all his SCs/1-GPs which might turn a flush.
Ofc I`m not saying c/c turn is generally bad, but adding T9hh in c/c range instead of betting range is somewhat weird imo firstly for reasons already stated and secondly for all good reasons in the world -- value [he still doesn`t fold more than 50% of turn range which have good equity vs your betting range but almost drawing dead vs your hand], protection [you basically would have to give up on any heart card on the river], saving initiative (which would allow you to make better decisions on many river cards).
Elaborating on protection/initiative part and breaking down your own range you come to the turn with there`re clearly better sdv hands which you can`t confidently vb turn with and which also distribute their equity better on any type of river cards. Yes I agree checking you allow him to bet turn with low equity floats, but as I`ve said b4 I don`t think he would get crazy on good for you (or neutral) runouts after you c/c [I mean you understand he was vb-ing river with a straight], you would pay his price vs better hands (minor consideration) and every hand improved to worst made hand won`t fold to your bet anyway.
On some coordinated runouts there is probably more merit in inducing than bluff-catching vs someone air heavy.
So with a hand like T9hh which is crushing his sdv/draws ott so hard I think its better to concentrate on direct extracting value.
[e.g. seems you have like ~85% vs his turn calling range, but you drop to ~60% on small hearts rivers. In my sims villain folds 40% otf and just 35% ott tho which might be optimistic.... and might be not
]
Yeah, I`ve missed the point of your first post.
My excuses sir...
Quote:
I get where you're going with this. I think you have missed that this turn card is theoretically good for villain, the implications of that and what I should I do with certain parts of my range are up for debate, but I remain unconvinced that check calling turn is bad. I think what it does to how he acts on the turn and the river compared to say check raising turn is definitely more appealing because of the amount of low equity floats he will have vs my holding.
Ofc I`m not saying c/c turn is generally bad, but adding T9hh in c/c range instead of betting range is somewhat weird imo firstly for reasons already stated and secondly for all good reasons in the world -- value [he still doesn`t fold more than 50% of turn range which have good equity vs your betting range but almost drawing dead vs your hand], protection [you basically would have to give up on any heart card on the river], saving initiative (which would allow you to make better decisions on many river cards).
Elaborating on protection/initiative part and breaking down your own range you come to the turn with there`re clearly better sdv hands which you can`t confidently vb turn with and which also distribute their equity better on any type of river cards. Yes I agree checking you allow him to bet turn with low equity floats, but as I`ve said b4 I don`t think he would get crazy on good for you (or neutral) runouts after you c/c [I mean you understand he was vb-ing river with a straight], you would pay his price vs better hands (minor consideration) and every hand improved to worst made hand won`t fold to your bet anyway.
On some coordinated runouts there is probably more merit in inducing than bluff-catching vs someone air heavy.
So with a hand like T9hh which is crushing his sdv/draws ott so hard I think its better to concentrate on direct extracting value.
[e.g. seems you have like ~85% vs his turn calling range, but you drop to ~60% on small hearts rivers. In my sims villain folds 40% otf and just 35% ott tho which might be optimistic.... and might be not
]
