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Old 08-08-2012, 08:09 AM   #1
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109$ KK

thoughts?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 109 Tournament, 10/20 Blinds (9 handed) - PokerStars Hand Converter from HandHistoryConverter.com

MP1 (t3000)
MP2 (t3300)
Hero (MP3) (t2970)
CO (t2930)
Button (t2800)
SB (t2980)
BB (t3000)
UTG (t6030)
UTG+1 (t2990)

Hero's M: 99.00

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K, K
UTG bets t60, 1 fold, MP1 raises to t100, 1 fold, Hero raises to t280, 4 folds, UTG calls t220, MP1 calls t180

Flop: (t870) Q, 9, 6 (3 players)
UTG checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks

Turn: (t870) A (3 players)
UTG checks, MP1 bets t522, Hero folds, UTG raises to t5750 (All-In), MP1 calls t2198 (All-In)

River: (t6310) 6 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: t6310
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Old 08-08-2012, 08:21 AM   #2
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Re: 109$ KK

It would be nice if YOU put your thoughts here.

at firt glance i would make it bigger pre and def bet this flop.
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Old 08-08-2012, 08:28 AM   #3
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Re: 109$ KK

why no cbet?
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Old 08-08-2012, 08:52 AM   #4
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Re: 109$ KK

Not cbetting this board is burning money.
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Old 08-08-2012, 08:58 AM   #5
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Re: 109$ KK

Not sure why you would check this flop. Getting hands like AJ/AT to fold would be a very good thing. And we can't be worried about QQ/99. There are many other hands that 3-bet and we are way ahead of their range.

If you are going for pot control then do it on the turn in position against a single opponent.

Also I agree with first poster about increasing the 4-bet pre.
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:12 AM   #6
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Re: 109$ KK

morepre
cbetgii
stop playing strongwhenweak-weakwhenstrong
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:17 AM   #7
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Re: 109$ KK

[QUOTE=Mr Rick;34176258]Getting hands like AJ/AT to fold would be a very good thing. QUOTE]

you may be doing it wrong

why do you think getting AJ/AT to fold is a good thing?
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:21 AM   #8
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Re: 109$ KK

I agree with betting more preflop. I understand the need to want to get paid off, but look what happened in front of you: there was and EP open and a cold 3 bet of that open. Most likely the MP player has a strong hand and you are getting paid. I'm thinking at least 350 here maybe a touch more.

You just have to c-bet here post flop. There's no reason to check that board.
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:23 AM   #9
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Re: 109$ KK

375/c flop
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:46 AM   #10
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Re: 109$ KK

Agree on betting more pre. What good do we get from cbet here?
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:49 AM   #11
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Re: 109$ KK

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssnyc View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Rick View Post
Getting hands like AJ/AT to fold would be a very good thing.
you may be doing it wrong

why do you think getting AJ/AT to fold is a good thing?
Maybe I phrased it wrong. Giving AJ/AT a free card is a bad thing. Betting and having AJ/AT fold is a better outcome. And betting and having AJ/AT call would be a mistake for villain and a good thing for us, perhaps the best outcome for us (assuming we get out of the way/minimize our losses when an A comes).

Though, in this hand vs two opponents, both who have shown strength I would rather fold out the three A outs assuming only one opponent has an A. if they both have an A then it doesn't matter. Either way, I much prefer betting the flop to not betting the flop and facing one opponent on the turn rather than two. Please let me know if I am still doing it wrong...

Last edited by Mr Rick; 08-08-2012 at 10:54 AM. Reason: want to put a face in there
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:50 AM   #12
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Re: 109$ KK

Quote:
Originally Posted by edmis View Post
Agree on betting more pre. What good do we get from cbet here?
value from a wide range of worse hands and random floaters...readless vs randoms just focus on building pots for value
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:54 AM   #13
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Re: 109$ KK

[QUOTE=Mr Rick;34177414]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssnyc View Post
Maybe I phrased it wrong. Giving AJ/AT a free card is a bad thing. Betting and having AJ/AT fold is a better outcome. And betting and having AJ/AT call would be a mistake for villain and a good thing for us, perhaps the best outcome for us (assuming we get out of the way/minimize our losses when an A comes).

Though, in this hand vs two opponents, both who have shown strength I would rather fold out the three A outs assuming only one opponent has an A. if they both have an A then it doesn't matter. Either way, I much prefer betting the flop to not betting the flop and facing one opponent on the turn rather than two. Please let me know if I am still doing it wrong...
still don't see why you want to fold out a 3 outer? I mean if the villan had 88 with 2 outs would you be trying to get him to call or fold?

We want to bet to have worse hands call or check so that worse hands may call us more frequently on later streets. In general we should be betting here in a 4 bet pot 3 way...HU I can maybe dig a check to ensure value on later streets but the problem is that we often only get later street value when we get run down by worse...i.e. if villans have 55 and never put another penny in without hitting a set then we are creating a neagtive freeroll and should bet flop.

Sorry so rambly
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Old 08-08-2012, 11:05 AM   #14
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Re: 109$ KK

Which hands are gonna pay a c-bet which we are ahead of? Its a UTG open MP1 3-bet and then a cold 4-bet and 2 calls. Hand ranges are gonna be pretty narrow here imo - and its not like JJ is gonna look you up on this board. Maybe you can get value from AQ/KQs excatly - but otherwise they have slim equity against your hand and if you ever gonna win some chips from their weaker holdings you prob gonna accomplish that best by checking the flop.
Im btw not sure what the best play is here - but dont think its a lol easy c-bet spot at all.
I would prob c-bet - but still am unsure wheater its the best play.
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Old 08-08-2012, 11:18 AM   #15
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Re: 109$ KK

Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnzDK View Post
Which hands are gonna pay a c-bet which we are ahead of? Its a UTG open MP1 3-bet and then a cold 4-bet and 2 calls. Hand ranges are gonna be pretty narrow here imo - and its not like JJ is gonna look you up on this board. Maybe you can get value from AQ/KQs excatly - but otherwise they have slim equity against your hand and if you ever gonna win some chips from their weaker holdings you prob gonna accomplish that best by checking the flop.
Im btw not sure what the best play is here - but dont think its a lol easy c-bet spot at all.
I would prob c-bet - but still am unsure wheater its the best play.
I think a ton of players will peel with JJ/1010...early in a big field MTT...people hardly play perfect
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