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$109: AKs standard missed spot

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08-25-2010 , 11:16 AM

jjyykk

now YugiohPro

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 9,399

Villain is random. No significant sample of stats on the person.

The 8c makes me want to shove. Backdoor equity! 3305 to win 1600 and I have 25% when called by a pair.

What do you guys think?

Poker Stars $100+$9 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t125/t250 Blinds + t25 - 9 players -
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

MP1: t3735 M = 6.22
MP2: t2625 M = 4.38
CO: t2050 M = 3.42
Hero (BTN): t3955 M = 6.59
SB: t3620 M = 6.03
BB: t6856 M = 11.43
UTG: t14549 M = 24.25
UTG+1: t8006 M = 13.34
UTG+2: t11096 M = 18.49

Pre Flop: (t600) Hero is BTN with K

6 folds, Hero raises to t625, 1 fold, BB calls t375

Flop: (t1600) 6

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero?

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08-25-2010 , 11:18 AM

p3rc4

banned

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 10,991

845/call.

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08-25-2010 , 11:30 AM

Texas Chuck

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 6,237

I would rather b/c too.

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08-25-2010 , 11:56 AM

dereds

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 16,782

just a quick question, my default in this spot is to raise call what I am interested in however is whether there is any value in checking back with a view to jamming over most turns if villain stabs.

I guess my point is if we think he stabs wider on the turn than he jams on the flop is it worth the fact we lose equity when behind?

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08-25-2010 , 12:00 PM

Texas Chuck

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 6,237

Dereds,

I think ur line has some merit but we have no FE with stacks so I would rather be slightly deeper. Unless of course its a pure value shove which I kinda think it is against a lot of villians.

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08-25-2010 , 12:10 PM

p3rc4

banned

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 10,991

I think you are overestimating how often he leads turn when flop is checked through.

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08-25-2010 , 12:17 PM

malta

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 1,757

Quote:

Originally Posted by p3rc4

845/call.

THIS

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08-25-2010 , 12:56 PM

jjyykk

now YugiohPro

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 9,399

KK I actually made it 1022 and called but ty for advice.

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08-25-2010 , 01:44 PM

SGT RJ

Twitching

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 49,109

What about jamming pre? With my M that would be my standard play here but since no one else has mentioned it maybe that's not the way it gets played at the $100 level BIs?

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08-25-2010 , 01:47 PM

#10

HotKarlMC

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 6,229

raise pre > jamming pre, obv

I think both checking and b/c are totally fine

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08-25-2010 , 01:47 PM

#11

marek_heinz

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 13,905

raise/calling pre shows more EV than shoving for sure

as played dont shove, its transparent even vs. randoms, there's merit to checking, but default is bet/calling imo

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08-25-2010 , 01:55 PM

#12

RandomGuy2

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 4,179

I would check. Don't see why we want to bet as he isn't folding any pair on this board, has very few draws with no pairs, and will fold most unpaired hands if we bet.

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08-25-2010 , 07:46 PM

#13

mcmurder

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,401

I'm not 100% convinced jamming pre isn't optimal actually, unless there's a dynamic where they will reship light on you. When the pot represents like 1/6 of your stack preflop there is a lot of value in them folding since you have 100% equity in that case, which means you need to win a fairly significant amount of chips on average postflop for it to be better than them just folding.

Which is probably true in this case, but worth considering anyway.

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08-25-2010 , 08:16 PM

#14

homanga

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 15,162

Pretty sure I shove pre...I am checking this flop as played.

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08-25-2010 , 08:20 PM

#15

haggiman

banned

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 280

I would shove or just bet and fold to a shove.
I dont see how we could check here, he is betting any turn, and your decision will become more difficult then it was on flop.

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08-25-2010 , 11:22 PM

#16

p3rc4

banned

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 10,991

Quote:

Originally Posted by homanga

Pretty sure I shove pre...I am checking this flop as played.

Why would you jam pre when they can resteal light? And what is your plan to a turn bet?

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08-25-2010 , 11:51 PM

#17

HotKarlMC

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 6,229

Quote:

Originally Posted by p3rc4

Why would you jam pre when they can resteal light? And what is your plan to a turn bet?

it depends on the turn, his betsizing! sometimes we can jam, sometimes call, on some cards we can even fold if he bets

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08-26-2010 , 04:30 AM

#18

rmthawk64

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 15,643

I like r/c better here given we have lke 18 bigs if my math is correct. Give a chance for spazzes to spazz ffs.

I'd prefer jaming if we had like 3300 or so.

975/c otf tho.

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08-26-2010 , 05:54 AM

#19

Exitonly

Ray of Hope

Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 17,724

i like checking flop

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08-26-2010 , 09:20 AM

#20

TStar

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,521

Checking the flop will make turn and rivers a guessing game and we will probably get owned by anyone good since our hand is pretty face up(Would we be checking QQ+, sets here?). I'd cbet around half pot and hope to induce some spaz.

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08-26-2010 , 09:23 AM

#21

RandomGuy2

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 4,179

Quote:

Originally Posted by TStar

I'm not playing a guessing game, I am calling off my stack on the next two streets if necessary. We have NUT no pair!

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08-26-2010 , 01:29 PM

#22

ndahlhoff10

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 6,224

Quote:

Originally Posted by p3rc4

I think you are overestimating how often he leads turn when flop is checked through.

Doesn't he tool out with a turn lead with his no pair hands more than he c/shoves them?

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08-26-2010 , 11:10 PM

#23

p3rc4

banned

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 10,991

True, but he is also getting a free card and can double barrel turn and river making our life miserable. He can get there in all sorts of fashions, and we have few ways to know wether we are good or not. I prefer keeping it simple and "unexploitable" here OOP.

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08-26-2010 , 11:25 PM

#24

M1cKmAcK

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 3,713

check camp.

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08-27-2010 , 01:35 AM

#25

zedveron

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 4,976

i think betting OOP, checking when we're IP is best on this flop. i'm not too worried about him making our life hard on future streets unless we know he's a good player. by default we should expect that we'll make better decisions than him on future streets with the benefit of position.

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