100k GTD £250 buy-in live J♣️J♥️ on button
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 28
Final day of 3 day event, currently in the money with 16 left.
Hero is playing 475k with Blinds at 12k/24k and 4k ante.
UTG+1 (950k, ABC tight) raises to 55k
All fold to hero on the button with J♣️J♥️.
Is it better to shove here or flat and see a flop in position?
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 259
So 8 handed, ABC tight and UTG+1. 77+, AQ+ seem right? I think shove only gets called by better, so how about 130kish and fold to 4 bet.
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,455
None of our options seems great
Fold seems incredibly weak
Flatting may encourage the blinds to come along, and we don't want to be playing JJ 3 or 4 way.
3 betting gets close to committing us, and I don't see how we get away from losing to QQ-AA on an all low board if he doesn't 4 bet us
Shove seems like we only get called by worse
Usually I end up shoving and praying in these situations.. you may get looked up by TT, things like AQo might fold. I think a flat call is OK if blinds are pretty tight.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,365
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 345
I think 3b/GII is ok, but 3b/fold 20BBs with JJ is awful. shove is fine too. Flatting is fine if blinds are really tight. I think 3bet shove is optimal since you are probably going to looked up by a wider range than his 4bet range which you need to get it against.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 351
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,609
I'd just shove instead of 3b/c so my overall shoving range does better vs calls.
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 83
we kinda need to know the payouts and average stack to accurately decide on this one as it's obviously kinda close. i think i like shove. live players will make some terrible folds so we might avoid a flip against AQ this way as he'll want to keep his big (?) stack together and not double up a competent player too. i'd also be inclined to show if he folds to keep our 3bet shoving range looking nutted so we can get more through later on.
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 338
I would flat pre, but I do not think there is anything wrong w/ shoving as long as you are OK with either flipping (most of the time) or being way behind, sometimes. A critical question you must ask yourself is: how important is moving up in the money in relation to my BR? If it is pivotal, flatting is more rationale. All in all, given your position, I like a flat here, and reeval OTF unless I have a solid read on V and moving up in the $ is not as critical, where a push is more reasonable.
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,047
it should be easy to play post against this villain so i think i flat in this spot most of the time and im usually floating atleast the cbet
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 352
Gizzle is right, we need more info.
If this player is your typical ABC tight, I may just flat. If we know he will only 4bet shove w AK+ QQ+ then a small 3bet could make sense.
A lot depends on our image too.
How would we play AA,KK in this spot?
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,861
Shoving looks best to me.
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 303
Surprised at how many people want to flat here. JJ is a premium but vulnerable hand, i think shoving is the best option barring some unusual payouts or stack sizes. Suck it up and embrace the variance
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 9,229
