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Mid-High Stakes MTT Discussion and analysis of mid-high stakes MTT strategy

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Old 08-01-2017, 09:37 PM   #1
angelargh
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Cool What does HERO DO with the nut blockers?

Feedback on a hand I played at the $1100 Monsterstack on day 1. Blinds levels are 30 mins, SS 50k.

General good feel about everyone on the table, hero's image is TAG. Have not played many hands but have been playing in POS and 3b fish on hero's right many many times. Table is very well aware of this. Anyhow hero busts fish with KK > TT in another 3b pre. New player comes into seat, no reads so far. Seen him win a pot but that's it.

To the hand...

Blinds 700/1400 300 ante
Hero: 95k
Villian: 65k

Villian open CO to 2800, hero looks down at Q9dd on BU and decides to 3b to 7200/ Blinds have around 50k but have been extremely passive. Both blinds fold. Villian thinks for a little and calls. Flop AdKdJs . Villian checks... What does HERO DO and why?
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Old 08-01-2017, 11:46 PM   #2
angelargh
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Re: What does HERO DO with the nut blockers?

So hero decides to cbet 8800. Villain check-raises to 19900.. Hero thinks about it a little and goes all in with the Queen blocker + nut flush draw.. Villain snaps calls with the nuts QTo no diamond.

Wanted to see if this was just a cooler and unlucky that hero ran into the toppest of the range. I can def see argument to check the flop and play later streets, but since we both had a bigger than avg stack, I wanted to get stacks in with such a big draw..

Thoughts?
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Old 08-02-2017, 02:03 AM   #3
RalphWaldoEmerson
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Re: What does HERO DO with the nut blockers?

well as long as you thought about it a little bit
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Old 08-02-2017, 02:06 AM   #4
NoLimitLion
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Re: What does HERO DO with the nut blockers?

It's very possible that you aren't making the right assessment of your table image.
You think you're playing TAG poker, but you say you've been aggressively 3 betting a certain player "many many times". Your image is probably closer to LAG.

Not that your image matters much in the current situation, since your villain is newish to this table and doesn't know your history, unless you or your table mates clued him in to your previous actions.

Villain raised preflop, called a reraise, check raised the flop to 40% of his stack. Seems like a poor place for a semi bluff as he has shown plenty of strength and has almost half his stack in there. You have very little fold equity, and everything he calls with is a made hand and you're behind. Wanting to get your stack in with 9-12 outs isn't a recipe for success, unless you think you can win the pot with the raise a good portion of the time.
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Old 08-02-2017, 11:05 AM   #5
persianpunisher
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Re: What does HERO DO with the nut blockers?

Pre I'm going a little bit bigger, but I'm not sizing is too big of an error.

Flop is standard IMO. Sucks to not suck out.
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Old 08-02-2017, 11:39 AM   #6
PhatPots
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Re: What does HERO DO with the nut blockers?

3 bet needs to be larger. I think saying you should check this flop, is being results oriented. I think normally I would bet the flop and then decide to check the turn or jam the turn depending on the player. I also think this might be a flop where we can consider betting smaller. Like maybe 5K.
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Old 08-02-2017, 12:27 PM   #7
Cardshark23
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Re: What does HERO DO with the nut blockers?

I would cbet 6500 to 7,000 on the flop. I can't blame you for shoving because you are never going to be in terrible shape and we have way too much equity to fold and i don't like flatting the flop raise. Pretty much a cooler. However there is some merit for checking back the flop for pot control. If he checks it you again on the turn you can start semi bluffing the turn. And if he leads turn you have an easy call and an easy decision on most rivers.
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Old 08-02-2017, 05:20 PM   #8
fortisque
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Re: What does HERO DO with the nut blockers?

Lol @ Villian having a check/raising range on an AKJ flop after flatting in a 3bet pot.
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Old 08-02-2017, 08:22 PM   #9
angelargh
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Re: What does HERO DO with the nut blockers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphWaldoEmerson View Post
well as long as you thought about it a little bit
only a tiny weeny little bit

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoLimitLion View Post
It's very possible that you aren't making the right assessment of your table image.
You think you're playing TAG poker, but you say you've been aggressively 3 betting a certain player "many many times". Your image is probably closer to LAG.

Not that your image matters much in the current situation, since your villain is newish to this table and doesn't know your history, unless you or your table mates clued him in to your previous actions.

Villain raised preflop, called a reraise, check raised the flop to 40% of his stack. Seems like a poor place for a semi bluff as he has shown plenty of strength and has almost half his stack in there. You have very little fold equity, and everything he calls with is a made hand and you're behind. Wanting to get your stack in with 9-12 outs isn't a recipe for success, unless you think you can win the pot with the raise a good portion of the time.
you might be right here, I believe I wish I was depicted as TAG.. True that he has made hands most of time (2pair, sets, or straight), but I don't know if we can fold here after our c-bet? Also when I ship, he might fold 2pairs minimum but probably not lol

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Originally Posted by fortisque View Post
Lol @ Villian having a check/raising range on an AKJ flop after flatting in a 3bet pot.
he is pretty strong after this line, but do you think hero can fold on flop with line taken knowing he probably got it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardshark23 View Post
I would cbet 6500 to 7,000 on the flop. I can't blame you for shoving because you are never going to be in terrible shape and we have way too much equity to fold and i don't like flatting the flop raise. Pretty much a cooler. However there is some merit for checking back the flop for pot control. If he checks it you again on the turn you can start semi bluffing the turn. And if he leads turn you have an easy call and an easy decision on most rivers.
agree cbet smaller in general is better. Action will not change unfortunately in this case
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Old 08-02-2017, 10:33 PM   #10
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Re: What does HERO DO with the nut blockers?

my mates a nut blocker, usually hero doesn't invite him out when he wants to score
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Old 08-02-2017, 10:42 PM   #11
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Re: What does HERO DO with the nut blockers?

srsly tho,

bro what are you doing, why 3b a new player when you have 0 reads? If you are going to make a play, do it for proper reasons. You have seen nothing to suggest this player is out of line or raising wide. What if he is the resident nit or 4b spew monkey?

but 3b pre readless is not the end of the world in this particular spot, esp since we have a good hand and pos for it.

You should realise that V x/r range in 3b pot on that texture is super nutted so why 3b? are you trying to make him fold or something? You are getting like 4-1 to peel one, more than good enough pot odds, so just do that
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Old 08-03-2017, 09:00 PM   #12
angelargh
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Re: What does HERO DO with the nut blockers?

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Originally Posted by wowsooooted View Post
my mates a nut blocker, usually hero doesn't invite him out when he wants to score
+EV answer. I should have just mucked him before the cards were even dealt

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Originally Posted by wowsooooted View Post
srsly tho,

bro what are you doing, why 3b a new player when you have 0 reads? If you are going to make a play, do it for proper reasons. You have seen nothing to suggest this player is out of line or raising wide. What if he is the resident nit or 4b spew monkey?

but 3b pre readless is not the end of the world in this particular spot, esp since we have a good hand and pos for it.

You should realise that V x/r range in 3b pot on that texture is super nutted so why 3b? are you trying to make him fold or something? You are getting like 4-1 to peel one, more than good enough pot odds, so just do that
should probably take the more conservative way on a new player.. It was just too good of a spot not to 3b. Hero is tempted by all the nuts he blocks.. gotta do it for the ladies ya know?
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Old 08-04-2017, 01:19 PM   #13
erc007
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Re: What does HERO DO with the nut blockers?

Thinly veiled brag about being cognizant of "nut blockers" (sic)...btw...noob question here but what nut combos does the 9d block?

You do have NFD blockerS tho...not so sure how that affects ur equity?
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Old 08-04-2017, 02:18 PM   #14
jpgiro
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Re: What does HERO DO with the nut blockers?

Pre is fine. I lean towards flatting Q9s since it generally plays decent enough multi-way but I might consider 3-betting CO opens with hands like K7s or J8s, so it's probably reasonable. Almost certainly going to auto c-bet flop for ~7K as this board should smash my 3-bet range and getting random underpairs and even Jx hands to fold is a win.

As played I can see a case for both calling the flop raise and getting it in. If we call flop, the pot will be ~56K and villain will have ~39K behind. Even if villain jams turn we're not going to be that far from having the direct price to call it off. That being said it can never be that bad to cash our equity on the flop.
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Old 08-07-2017, 09:07 PM   #15
angelargh
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Re: What does HERO DO with the nut blockers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by erc007 View Post
Thinly veiled brag about being cognizant of "nut blockers" (sic)...btw...noob question here but what nut combos does the 9d block?

You do have NFD blockerS tho...not so sure how that affects ur equity?
It's more about the Qd that we hold, we block all queen combos he can have QT, QJ, KQ, AQ plus since it's the diamond we also block his diamond combos.. saying this it may be better to check the flop to keep his lower diamonds in the hand.. but he can also still check raise his Tdxd draws but unlikely he made it such a small check raise.. so in hindsight prefer the check over cbet small. Cbet is not too bad tho.. still okay imo

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgiro View Post
Pre is fine. I lean towards flatting Q9s since it generally plays decent enough multi-way but I might consider 3-betting CO opens with hands like K7s or J8s, so it's probably reasonable. Almost certainly going to auto c-bet flop for ~7K as this board should smash my 3-bet range and getting random underpairs and even Jx hands to fold is a win.

As played I can see a case for both calling the flop raise and getting it in. If we call flop, the pot will be ~56K and villain will have ~39K behind. Even if villain jams turn we're not going to be that far from having the direct price to call it off. That being said it can never be that bad to cash our equity on the flop.
Cbet small def first thing that pops up in my mind.. unlucky we run into the toppest of his range.. i wonder if he flopped 2pair, what would he have done to an all in on flop
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Old 08-12-2017, 05:45 PM   #16
omgjaypee
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Re: What does HERO DO with the nut blockers?

3bet here is an option I guess. Would not recommend though. Since it's a new player and you have close to no reads or image I would just flat here. Your hand plays very well post flop, also when blinds call.

Since you chose to 3 bet, you should def. go bigger there to around 8.5 - 8.9k. Hand like Q10o, JQ, KJ, should fold here, making your 3bet more profitable because he's folding a bigger hand than yours.

Mostlikely, AA, KK, AK and QQ aren't in his range because most players just 4-bet this pre.

On flop, I think your play is fine, although 8.8k might be a bit much. If you bet smaller and he calls, you're giving yourself better a better price on your SD and FD. You don't have to bet bigger to create an all in situation on river because his stack is small enough to get it all in if you hit your FD.

After his raise, you're often beat. But he also has 10Jdd, 78dd, Ax10d, AxJ(d/x) in his range so you don't have to be that far behind or could even be ahead(!)
Don't see a reason to check raise AQ, KJ, KQ, K10 for villain so it has to be the following:
10Jdd, 78dd, Ax10d (meh...), AxJ(d/x), JJ or Q10xx.

Given the pot size you should never fold here. I don''t think you got any FE, I can't really come up with a hand that check raises here and folding to a shove.

Peace

Last edited by omgjaypee; 08-12-2017 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 08-12-2017, 08:43 PM   #17
oldsilver
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Re: What does HERO DO with the nut blockers?

You've three bet pre and cbet
V has zero bluffs in range and allin achieves precisely nothing
As played call with express odds to hit turn and take it from there
And anyone saying check back flop is being RO but sizing should be small
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Old 08-12-2017, 10:16 PM   #18
YawnsIEs
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Re: What does HERO DO with the nut blockers?

You block the nut draw but other than that you don't block many made hands, so I think you can fold when you get 3bet. Besides that play is normal, maybe smaller sizing on flop.
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Old 08-13-2017, 03:43 AM   #19
BDHarrison
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Re: What does HERO DO with the nut blockers?

Having the Q as a blocker means that you block the probability that he is raising you with the nut flush draw. Having the 9 takes out a few more flush draws that he might have. If we think that villain would not bluff with air, that means his flop raise is likely to be hands that can check-raise for value against a TAG's preflop 3bet range on a AKJ board. What do you think your perceived range is on that flop and what hands should check-raise against that range?
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Old 08-13-2017, 08:14 PM   #20
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Re: What does HERO DO with the nut blockers?

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Originally Posted by YawnsIEs View Post
You block the nut draw but other than that you don't block many made hands, so I think you can fold when you get 3bet. Besides that play is normal, maybe smaller sizing on flop.
but as we have nut fd we have direct odds to peel that raise.

smaller sizing and call a 3b. pre is okay anyway.

if i were in that spot oh boy i would go allin just to see a man that x raises that flop in 3b hand cry when river comes diamond
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