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Tough river call or fold?

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08-12-2017 , 10:18 AM

Afteryastack

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 421

Struggled with the river decision here and wanted to get some thoughts on what other players would do. Also would welcome opinions on if you would've played the hand similar up until the villain shove OTR.

Villain is 19/10 80 hands.

Poker Stars, $75 Buy-in (450/900 blinds, 140 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: 21,991 (24.4 bb)
BB: 19,504 (21.7 bb)
Hero (UTG+1): 25,144 (27.9 bb)
UTG+2: 62,370 (69.3 bb)
MP1: 8,946 (9.9 bb)
MP2: 23,204 (25.8 bb)
MP3: 10,528 (11.7 bb)
CO: 15,035 (16.7 bb)
BTN: 59,572 (66.2 bb)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with T

Hero raises to 1,980, 6 folds, SB calls 1,530, BB folds

Flop: (6,120) 2

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (6,120) K

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets 2,966, SB calls 2,966

River: (12,052) A

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets 4,337, SB raises to 16,905 and is all-in, Hero?

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

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08-12-2017 , 10:35 AM

Satory

newbie

Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 33

I believe he will not call OOP with AK/AQ/AJ so he has a weaker Ax or more likely Kx. I will call here most of the time.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

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08-12-2017 , 10:45 AM

iamhussler

adept

Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 900

Never folding, if he has 2,2 so be it.

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08-12-2017 , 08:56 PM

Zimmer4141

Wet

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 33,667

Prob not folding here just because it's such a weird line. Like anything that has us beat on the river also has us beat on the flop and turn, and it's just such a weird line to take on this board for value.

I'm prob calling off.

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08-12-2017 , 10:18 PM

YawnsIEs

newbie

Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 29

You lose to too few combos to fold IMO

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08-13-2017 , 03:50 AM

tzurp

stranger

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 11

sounds like A-9 off- or a bluff still i would call as played.
not that it would change something but i would c- bet flop when kicker not that strong

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08-13-2017 , 04:28 AM

Afteryastack

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 421

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zimmer4141

These were my thoughts exactly.

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08-13-2017 , 04:29 AM

Afteryastack

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 421

Thanks for the responses everyone. Seems like nobody is folding. I ended up calling and villain showed up with 99. Strange line to take but it confused me and it worked so fair play to the villain i guess.

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08-13-2017 , 05:46 AM

Soepgroente

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 4,083

Dunno why everybody wants to call, most villains will realise you're not folding Ax and exploitably don't have any bluffs here. Only reason to call here is if villain can overplay A8 or something.

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08-13-2017 , 08:49 AM

#10

Afteryastack

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 421

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soepgroente

Dunno why everybody wants to call, most villains will realise you're not folding Ax and exploitably don't have any bluffs here. Only reason to call here is if villain can overplay A8 or something.

I was hoping someone would weigh in on villains possible bluff range, if any. J10/Q10/QJ spades maybe? Any Kx would just call or fold the river rather than shoving most of the time i think.

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08-13-2017 , 11:24 PM

#11

wowsooooted

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 5,077

fold pre,

never folding as played

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08-14-2017 , 12:46 AM

#12

MerginHosOn24s

adept

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 1,083

take your lumps and move on. the line you took on flop def makes this a call IMO

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08-14-2017 , 09:17 PM

#13

sambraun

newbie

Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by wowsooooted

fold pre,

never folding as played

YESSS!!!

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08-15-2017 , 07:33 AM

#14

cicakman

banned

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 9,229

You guys can't talk about pre without knowing who the bb is or what the table is like.

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08-15-2017 , 08:56 AM

#15

daviid

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,639

pre is whatever as cicak said depends a bit on who is in the bb. as played we are getting close to 3-1 on a call (having to call 12ish to win 33ish) and given that price i dont think we can just call quads and KK here. people will surely turn some random stuff into a bluff or (less likely though) feel induced to jam worse Ax for value not to mention that his only boat flatting from sb should be precisely 99.

easy call and def wp.

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08-15-2017 , 09:54 AM

#16

OutPlayU27

old hand

Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 1,688

So i see A9, and 22, but what about 99, AJ (and AQ if his a nit) ??
I understand that mathematically we should call, but like what do we even beat? Not saying we should always fold, but neither call.
We can def have an Ax here and AA , aswell as KK in our x/back range otf, sometimes i´ll x/back 99.
Tbh just don´t see people bluff in spots like this, unless i know his a monkey clicking buttons.

Last edited by OutPlayU27; 08-15-2017 at 09:57 AM. Reason: also, pre is close OP

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08-17-2017 , 09:25 AM

#17

SickCall

enthusiast

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 68

Dont see why you ever would check the flop. Think this is the type of flop we want to cbet 100 %, 30 % pot ish.

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08-17-2017 , 10:56 AM

#18

imfromsweden

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 10,152

whatever I call river as well even though we're prob beat most of the time. Losing to too few combos and he gets to the river with too many weak combos for us to be able to fold imo.

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08-17-2017 , 12:15 PM

#19

user12345

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 3,737

Sb will have more underboats and good Ax, bb will have more Ax-boats thus calling KK and folding AT vs sb and vice versa vs bb (assuming bb will have bluffs).

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08-23-2017 , 02:59 PM

#20

Ctrick311

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 398

Assuming we have zero reads on the SB and BB, shouldn't this be a fold pre? I'd rather have 109s and A5s type hands here than ATo but I respect most of what Cicak says.

What's the point of checking the flop here? I figured this is a board we want to be cbetting a LOT on. I could see us maybe checking back with AK sometimes here on the flop but idk about AT. Maybe the strat is way over my head though.

I agree with what was said about Vs line not making sense. I would expect him to lead the turn with all A9 A2, 22, and 99 hands. Is that standard to check/call turn? V is super lucky Hero binked an A.

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08-23-2017 , 04:38 PM

#21

vyken111

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 572

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zimmer4141

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08-24-2017 , 12:40 AM

#22

jpgiro

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 1,439

Pre is marginal, think ATo should be absolute bottom of our open range.

Flop is reasonable, I can see some argument to betting AT because we'll have worse Ax if we're opening our Ax suited hands, but having it as a check is fine too. Turn is standard as played.

As played, we may have 99, KK or AA that we elected to check flop/bet turn, but beyond that, this is probably one of the best hands we can have here that check flop/bet turn/bet river for value. Add in the fact that we don't block spade draws and I think I'm calling.

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08-25-2017 , 09:05 AM

#23

onehandatatime

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 1,381

I'm leaning towards folding pre considering our stack size and reshove stacks behind us. As played, probably not folding, but I don't think villain took a weird line at all, he was trapping and it worked. Actually, to me there's no better line for villain to take with this hand.

His shove OTR just looks so strong and more times than not a c/r all in OTR is usually indicates a super strong hand, it's just so hard to lay this down though.

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08-25-2017 , 11:36 AM

#24

Afteryastack

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 421

Everybody - thank you for the feedback, much appreciated.

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