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Final 14, Second in Chips by Wide Margin vs Chip Leader, Fold AK? Final 14, Second in Chips by Wide Margin vs Chip Leader, Fold AK?

08-12-2017 , 08:11 PM
Do you ever (Online)? What conditions would point you one way or the other?
Final 14, Second in Chips by Wide Margin vs Chip Leader, Fold AK? Quote
08-12-2017 , 09:26 PM
This question is too vague OP. Post some stack sizes, positions, relevant history and actual hand history, otherwise there will be little point in this thread being open.
Final 14, Second in Chips by Wide Margin vs Chip Leader, Fold AK? Quote
08-12-2017 , 09:37 PM
Maybe some high stakes guys can weigh in now that it's merged.
Final 14, Second in Chips by Wide Margin vs Chip Leader, Fold AK? Quote
08-13-2017 , 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregz41
This question is too vague OP. Post some stack sizes, positions, relevant history and actual hand history, otherwise there will be little point in this thread being open.
We'd also need to understand the stakes being played and the payout structure as well.
Final 14, Second in Chips by Wide Margin vs Chip Leader, Fold AK? Quote
08-14-2017 , 11:57 AM
I figured it might be too vague but I decided not to give details in first post because the hand that led to this question was played live and the question is about online play.

$550 ($100k GTD) at local casino. Runs 4 times a year and draws a lot of good players but very soft field overall. ~280 entries, 36 players paid, $34k to first.

Blinds 3000/6000 ante 1000, 14 players remain. Chipstacks are all approximate but close. Bigstack sitting on 320k (53bb), I have 250k (42bb), next biggest at table has 170k (28bb). Rest of table sitting on 20bb or less. Two biggest stacks at other table had ~30bb at break, and we've played less than 10 hands since.

Bigstack is a strong weekend warrior type, a favorite in the field but mostly just a straightforward tight player who understands tournament dynamics. Bigstack and hero have been avoiding each other and picking on the smaller stacks.

Bigstack is MP and opens to 14k, folds to Hero on BUT holding AKo, Hero 3b to 40k, folds back to MP who tanks and 4b to 95k. Hero?

Spoiler:
This felt like a super easy fold. I had what seemed to be a very reliable weak tell on this player, and wasn't seeing it, but even without the read I think its an easy fold vs. player type. Bigstack proudly showed KK after the hand, but I wasn't going to lose any sleep over this hand if he hadn't.

It occurred to me after the tournament that I would NEVER have folded this hand online unless I had a huge sample and villain was a horrible nit.

Why is it so different? I can think of lots of possible reasons, but nothing concrete. Are better players finding places to make folds like this online?

Last edited by Sheep4ker; 08-14-2017 at 12:13 PM. Reason: formatting
Final 14, Second in Chips by Wide Margin vs Chip Leader, Fold AK? Quote
08-14-2017 , 12:36 PM
This is a spot where I think calling, jamming and folding all have some merit.

Even if our opponents' entire range is KK+ and AK, then we're 37%. We are going to be IP if we call getting the right price (although it's questionable whether we realize our equity enough in this spot) and certainly can fold with a reasonable stack if we don't connect on the flop. For that reason, I don't think calling this 4-bet is an awful mistake (I would certainly consider calling with AA so it can't be too bad to occasionally call with a hand like AK to balance that out), but we have to be prepared to get it in on an A-high or K-high board because of the SPR we created.

I think jamming has merit if we think there's even a small (like 20%) chance our opponent has a hand they're going to fold. Like if we 5 bet jam and our opponent might fold JJ and occasionally QQ, that might be enough of their range to justify the jam.

However, if you think you have an edge on the field and your opponent is highly unlikely to even have hands like QQ or JJ in their 4-bet range, then I can see a fold being reasonable as this is probably a marginal spot. But as a general rule, I don't like folding AK with a 40BB stack.
Final 14, Second in Chips by Wide Margin vs Chip Leader, Fold AK? Quote
08-14-2017 , 09:12 PM
No way am I wanting to risk going out in 14th with the 2nd biggest stack. You are the 2nd chip leader so why flip with AK if you shove and why lose perhaps lose half your stack if you don't hit. Talking of online in the last 18 times I was dealt AK I saw an Ace or a King on the board 4 times.

Your villain most likely has JJ-AA if he really is a straightforward tight player weekend warrior type. If he had AK then whats the point. The risk isn't worth it in my view.

OK just read your spoiler and I'm not 100% sure but on the few hundred big MTT replays I've seen hardly any appear to be folding AK.
Final 14, Second in Chips by Wide Margin vs Chip Leader, Fold AK? Quote

      
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