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Defending the BB vs wide BU open? Defending the BB vs wide BU open?

08-16-2017 , 05:14 AM
$33 bounty builder - 9 handed - 500 left, 260 paid.

Villain - hasn't been getting too out of line from EP but in LP has been aggressive, 28/18/4 (60 hands). Raised every pot I've seen when it's folded to him in CO or BU. When Villain is BU Hero is in the BB. For the most part his raises have taken down the pot (mainly due to Hero having trash every time he has raised). Still has original bounty.

Hero - Playing TAG. 22/17/8. Showed down only premiums at this table thus far (AA, JJ, AK & AQs) and have given up the blinds a lot (could be considered a nit by the table). Still has original bounty.

OTTH

Preflop
6 Folds
Villain BU (37BB) raises 3BB
SB folds
Hero BB (48BB) 3bets 9.25BB
Villain Calls.

So without revealing what my hand was just yet, what should my 3bet range here be vs a wide opener? I fear I may have 3bet too wide due to getting frustrated that I haven't yet been able to defend.

I'd also like feedback on the postflop action in this hand but I will post that later on.
Defending the BB vs wide BU open? Quote
08-17-2017 , 09:16 AM
You can't draw any conclusions over how villian plays after 60 hands. What was his size pre? You should probably consider defending wider than you are. You should have close to the same amount off bluffs as valuebets when 3betting here. Depends on how you want to construct your range, but 3betting low suited hands and premium hands is one option.
Defending the BB vs wide BU open? Quote
08-17-2017 , 10:49 AM
Thanks for the reply.

He opened 3BB (I believe blinds were 200/400 and he opened to 1200).

My 3bet was to 11.25BB (4500) (not 9.25 as I had originally stated).

I had Q6.

Flop came 642.
Hero???

1) Is Q6 too loose to 3bet bluff villain here?
2) What should be my next action on the flop as I fear I played this hand all wrong.
Defending the BB vs wide BU open? Quote
08-17-2017 , 06:30 PM
1) Would not 3bet this hand, does well as a flat vs his open.

2) Think both lead and x is fine, not that much difference in ev.
Defending the BB vs wide BU open? Quote
08-17-2017 , 07:40 PM
Agreed would flat pre and 3bet some ****tier Ax/Kx. Flop check must be good.
Defending the BB vs wide BU open? Quote
08-17-2017 , 07:47 PM
You have ~pot left, check/call the shove, bet small/call, shove right away, whatever you think is the best way to get action. You're never ever ever getting away, especially in a psko.

Is 3x his standard raise? Either way it's between flatting and folding pre, though a 3bet isn't super horrible.
Defending the BB vs wide BU open? Quote
08-17-2017 , 08:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soepgroente
You have ~pot left, check/call the shove, bet small/call, shove right away, whatever you think is the best way to get action. You're never ever ever getting away, especially in a psko.

Is 3x his standard raise? Either way it's between flatting and folding pre, though a 3bet isn't super horrible.
While our odds are worse, folding pre is definitely worse than calling. I think this hand is too far up in our range that continues to think about 3bet. When you face larger sizes, the hands you use to bluff shift. Hands which you were previously using to 3bet vs more standard open sizes might become folds.
Defending the BB vs wide BU open? Quote
08-18-2017 , 04:52 AM
Thanks for the replies.

I decided to go for a bet of 4k into 10.5k. He shoved and I called. (he was bluffing and I lost on the river).

3x was his standard open from LP and about 2.25x from EP and MP.

So gregz are you saying the higher the initial raise, the lower are bluff frequency should be?

Just my thinking, probably wrong but would like to discuss: would we not want to increase our bluff frequency when someone uses a higher initial open from LP (obviously within reason, say 3x instead of 2x) because a) the reward is higher and b) people tend to use higher opens as steals IME?
Defending the BB vs wide BU open? Quote
08-18-2017 , 05:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by touchmyflop
So gregz are you saying the higher the initial raise, the lower are bluff frequency should be?

Just my thinking, probably wrong but would like to discuss: would we not want to increase our bluff frequency when someone uses a higher initial open from LP (obviously within reason, say 3x instead of 2x) because a) the reward is higher and b) people tend to use higher opens as steals IME?
I wouldn't say it's exactly like this. The amount of bluffs you have is determined by how many hands you elect to 3bet for value. However, as you encounter larger sizes, some of your thinner 3bets for value may in fact become flats. So if you start flatting some hands like AJs/KQs/99 and your overall 3bet value range gets smaller, then you should also 3bet bluff less frequently.

With regards to the rest of your post, I see this trail of thought occasionally. I understand what you're getting at, but I think the following factors are more important. He's risking more to win the pot pre-flop -> we don't have to defend so frequently. We get a worse price on our 3bet -> it's worse for us to 3bet so often.

I'd rather apply those fundamentals than make a decision based on previous experience with a different player. Although it could be argued that players using two sizes to open on the button won't have strong fundamentals, but that's getting a bit off track.
Defending the BB vs wide BU open? Quote
08-18-2017 , 09:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregz41
With regards to the rest of your post, I see this trail of thought occasionally. I understand what you're getting at, but I think the following factors are more important. He's risking more to win the pot pre-flop -> we don't have to defend so frequently. We get a worse price on our 3bet -> it's worse for us to 3bet so often.
I like this.

I am trying to enhance my game by posting and getting involved more so thank you all for your insight!
Defending the BB vs wide BU open? Quote

      
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