Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Mid-High Stakes MTT Discussion and analysis of mid-high stakes MTT strategy

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-01-2017, 01:23 PM   #1
RalphWaldoEmerson
Pooh-Bah
 
RalphWaldoEmerson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: mtt retiree
Posts: 4,319
ACR milly preflop trap leads to nasty MW flop spot

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - 12,500/25,000 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG+1: 483,643 (VPIP: 17.05, PFR: 12.96, 3Bet Preflop: 2.59, Hands: 264)
MP: 643,016 (VPIP: 19.58, PFR: 14.92, 3Bet Preflop: 8.31, Hands: 727)
Hero (MP+1): 1,113,230
CO: 1,567,783 (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 26.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)
BTN: 1,247,669 (VPIP: 26.67, PFR: 26.67, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 15)
SB: 186,329 (VPIP: 22.86, PFR: 11.76, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 35)
BB: 994,062 (VPIP: 17.65, PFR: 18.18, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 34)
UTG: 525,225 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)

8 players post ante of 2,500, SB posts SB 12,500, BB posts BB 25,000

Pre Flop: (pot: 57,500) Hero has A A

UTG raises to 50,000, fold, fold, Hero calls 50,000, CO calls 50,000, fold, fold, BB calls 25,000

Flop: (232,500, 4 players) 5 4 2
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, CO bets 116,250, fold, UTG raises to 472,725 and is all-in

45-50 remain. UTG is a cash reg who I have v limited history with, <100 hands at cash tables. CO has 6 MTTs on ACR with $600 ABI, probably a 'stars reg who just plays the high buyin stuff here. He had been active so far.

Preflop is prob a mistake and if I could do it over again I'd just 3bet. At the time I thought 3betting looked very nutted and we could protect our flatting range with big stacks to our left. However, I don't think they will sqz light vs. the 21bb UTG open.

Flop is gross, idk if UTG can have 44,55, I would assume they're all in CO's range. UTG xrai looks quite strong though imo in this spot, cuz I think with the flop SPR he's likely to just cbet/gii JJ/QQ, he doesn't want to allow cards to roll off with those hands. Looking at it now I think he has AKhh AQhh a lot, some KK, and some 44/55 are possible.

I had no timebank to think it through but off the top of my head thought it was a **** spot to shove 40bbs into CO's range here and wasn't sure it was worth the variance to play for stacks in a marginally profitable situation.
RalphWaldoEmerson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2017, 01:49 PM   #2
Minatorr
old hand
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,811
Re: ACR milly preflop trap leads to nasty MW flop spot

Yeah just 3b pre. You're missing out on a lot of value, and you're always 3b/GII AK 20bb deep although he's opening UTG. Plus you're giving people way too good implied odds behind you to stack you.

AP, wouldn't mind a fold or rejam on this flop. It's close either way, but I think a reshove should be slightly profitable. CO has to be pretty wary of betting liberally here, UTG has some overpairs/AJhh+ he's looking to x/jam with. BB still has all the nutted sets/straights. So it's not like he's betting hands like 66-88 here & naked flush draws. I think his range is A3s/sets/huge combo draws/99-JJ.
Minatorr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2017, 01:57 PM   #3
erc007
old hand
 
erc007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Running towards Nothing...again and
Posts: 1,816
Re: ACR milly preflop trap leads to nasty MW flop spot

Don't really think there is a great option pre. The presence of active big stacks behind hurts us b/c they will overcall a lot and only squeeze premium hands.

I do think it's a mistake to check the flop tho. It may be a smaller mistake if you think CO can slow play a set, which isn't a bad play with utg left to act.

As played I still think u have to go with it.
erc007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2017, 02:07 PM   #4
RalphWaldoEmerson
Pooh-Bah
 
RalphWaldoEmerson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: mtt retiree
Posts: 4,319
Re: ACR milly preflop trap leads to nasty MW flop spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by erc007 View Post
I do think it's a mistake to check the flop tho. It may be a smaller mistake if you think CO can slow play a set, which isn't a bad play with utg left to act.
I considered "leading" and it's prob ok. I thought that given the presence of 22-55 in Hero range is low (22,44 def fold pre vs. UTG 20bb open) and they're pretty strongly in CO range (and to a much lesser extent BB range) that leading wasn't the best option. BB also has 63s, 54s, A3s (which we block), to what extent that matters. B/decide vs. CO/BB is such a nasty spot and didn't expect an UTG xrai action sequence very often.
RalphWaldoEmerson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2017, 02:24 PM   #5
Howard Treesong
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Howard Treesong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: In for the long con!
Posts: 8,149
ACR milly preflop trap leads to nasty MW flop spot

CO has a really wide range here. He is betting half the pot where it has checked around to him on a low flop that has potentially missed everyone except for the obvious gut draws. I would think there are a substantial number of bluffs in his range in addition to pair/draw combos, straights, two pair and sets. It's a great spot for him to bet a polarized range.

UTG's range has AhKh and AhQh for sure and probably three ways to make kings (the three with Kh in them). 55 and 44 are possible but really at the bottom end of his range. I'd discount those a lot if there has been at least a fair amount of three-betting at the table. I think I go with this as played and jam over.

This is a good lesson why it's really risky to get fancy with AA pre.
Howard Treesong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2017, 03:02 PM   #6
erc007
old hand
 
erc007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Running towards Nothing...again and
Posts: 1,816
Re: ACR milly preflop trap leads to nasty MW flop spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphWaldoEmerson View Post
I considered "leading" and it's prob ok. I thought that given the presence of 22-55 in Hero range is low (22,44 def fold pre vs. UTG 20bb open) and they're pretty strongly in CO range (and to a much lesser extent BB range) that leading wasn't the best option. BB also has 63s, 54s, A3s (which we block), to what extent that matters. B/decide vs. CO/BB is such a nasty spot and didn't expect an UTG xrai action sequence very often.
hold on...does "ok"= fine...clarify pls...
erc007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2017, 03:15 PM   #7
xxjondxx
old hand
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,386
Re: ACR milly preflop trap leads to nasty MW flop spot

Flat pre is fine/good, You should crush utgs range, co could just have like some rando pp that doesnt wanna give a free turn and sets sometimes but w/e ur not dead to that. Mb u have to just bet flop when it checks to you tho.
xxjondxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2017, 04:46 PM   #8
lolposting2016
adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 909
Re: ACR milly preflop trap leads to nasty MW flop spot

obv just 3b i dont see a good enough reason ever to start looking to build flatting ranges w hands like this unless theres massive exploitative reasons here (ones listed dont cut it imo)
anyway as played just bet for value otf.
as played im calling pretty happily here for 40bb and all this $ in there you block straights which is a nice part of value range here plus you got outs!
lolposting2016 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2017, 06:12 AM   #9
betgo
banned
 
betgo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Highest ROI 16/18 & 12/180 in 2011
Posts: 28,591
Re: ACR milly preflop trap leads to nasty MW flop spot

Preflop is probably bad. 3b looks strong, but it isn't a good squeeze spot and you don't want to let people in cheap with speculative hands. Checking flop on wet board is awful.
AA is very strong here and you can't let 3 players draw for free to straights and flushes.

This is a notorious action flop, 3 wheel cards and a 2-flush. Aces have straight draws and pps are over pairs and/or have straight draws. Not looking to fold AA on this flop. UTG c/r is almost always a draw or weaker over pair. UTG probably doesn't play small pp and would just cbet set. CO could have set mined and hit, but can have other things. AA has 6 outs against a set. Only in trouble against a set once BB folds, as straight and 2 pair are unlikely. Obviously can't fold.
betgo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2017, 06:16 AM   #10
cicakman
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
cicakman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,848
Re: ACR milly preflop trap leads to nasty MW flop spot

Is May fools a new thing?
cicakman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2017, 07:29 AM   #11
OutPlayU27
old hand
 
OutPlayU27's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,569
Re: ACR milly preflop trap leads to nasty MW flop spot

What's your range in this spot?
Even tho we look nutted I will also have a 3bet/f range here (it depends obv)
Can't fold now bro , by checking flop we basically give up on the pot , and the nice thing about it we don't block any FD's, so I'll happily gii, ul if CO has a set.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
OutPlayU27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2017, 08:39 AM   #12
betgo
banned
 
betgo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Highest ROI 16/18 & 12/180 in 2011
Posts: 28,591
Re: ACR milly preflop trap leads to nasty MW flop spot

AA is really strong on this flop, with straight draw and strong pair. Someone could gii on this flop with any pp, flush draw, various A-rag and low connectors if played preflop, and maybe AK/AQ.
betgo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2017, 01:21 PM   #13
onehandatatime
adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Sens nation
Posts: 1,149
Re: ACR milly preflop trap leads to nasty MW flop spot

Isn't this spot a dream scenario for you by flatting pre with AA? I don't think it can get much better besides the obv. Also, what were your intentions for flatting? Were there some aggro betting going on behind you? By 3 betting pre we def look nutted so this is a spot that I would flat AA some of the time, more inclined to do so if there were a lot of 3 bets going on behind. You cant fold here.
onehandatatime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2017, 02:41 PM   #14
betgo
banned
 
betgo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Highest ROI 16/18 & 12/180 in 2011
Posts: 28,591
Re: ACR milly preflop trap leads to nasty MW flop spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by onehandatatime View Post
Isn't this spot a dream scenario for you by flatting pre with AA? I don't think it can get much better besides the obv.
Yeh, this is a famous action flop, on which AA is really good on.
betgo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2017, 03:09 PM   #15
onehandatatime
adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Sens nation
Posts: 1,149
Re: ACR milly preflop trap leads to nasty MW flop spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by betgo View Post
Yeh, this is a famous action flop, on which AA is really good on.
What I'm saying is what else are you hoping for when you flat AA in EP? Are you really going to fold it now?
onehandatatime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2017, 06:49 AM   #16
betgo
banned
 
betgo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Highest ROI 16/18 & 12/180 in 2011
Posts: 28,591
Re: ACR milly preflop trap leads to nasty MW flop spot

I have seen discussion of this sort of flop in videos from way back. It is fairly common to have people going allin on it, with all the over pairs and combo draws likely. AA also has a draw, and is strong compared to hands you can expect action from.

I guess CO had a set, as the hand was posted. I would not be real happy about action from CO, as a lot of his over calling range should be small pps. This is part of the problem of flat calling in this situation, particularly with good players at the table.
betgo is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online