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Mid-High Stakes MTT Discussion and analysis of mid-high stakes MTT strategy

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Old 03-14-2017, 07:42 AM   #1
steinerbest
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30 € The Big BvB with QJo from SB

PokerStars - 100/200 Ante 25 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP+1: 43.11 BB (VPIP: 31.25, PFR: 20.83, 3Bet Preflop: 10.53, Hands: 48)
CO: 51.08 BB (VPIP: 15.64, PFR: 11.04, 3Bet Preflop: 4.55, Hands: 331)
BTN: 95.66 BB (VPIP: 28.21, PFR: 17.95, 3Bet Preflop: 11.11, Hands: 78)
Hero (SB): 58.59 BB
BB: 61.33 BB (VPIP: 27.47, PFR: 17.58, 3Bet Preflop: 13.16, Hands: 91)
UTG: 40.41 BB (VPIP: 23.08, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
UTG+1: 174.94 BB (VPIP: 25.74, PFR: 10.89, 3Bet Preflop: 2.00, Hands: 103)
MP: 47.68 BB (VPIP: 8.82, PFR: 2.94, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 34)

8 players post ante of 0.13 BB, Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.5 BB) Hero has J Q

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.8 BB, BB calls 1.8 BB

Flop: (6.6 BB, 2 players) 7 2 J
Hero bets 2.64 BB, BB calls 2.64 BB

Turn: (11.88 BB, 2 players) 7
Hero checks, BB bets 5.11 BB, Hero calls 5.11 BB

River: (22.1 BB, 2 players) Q
Hero bets 11.05 BB, BB raises to 50.65 BB and is all-in, HERO??

We are in middle stage, v's kinda sensed one; after 91 hands he's a 27/18, 2/8 (25%) bet turn, no samples for raise river. Was my line ok? I guess my worst play was the river 1/2 pot bet, I guess I won't take too much value from worse hands. Thank you!
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Old 03-14-2017, 09:24 AM   #2
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Re: 30 € The Big BvB with QJo from SB

why are we checking OTT?

Edit: also why are we betting OTR? By checking turn and leading OTR it seems like a very fishy line. I would rather just bet turn and bet river. If you get raised at any point then you can fold.

As played I'd just check back river and decide to play your hand as a bluffcatcher.

Last edited by onehandatatime; 03-14-2017 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 03-14-2017, 10:34 AM   #3
scheier
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Re: 30 € The Big BvB with QJo from SB

I'm really fine with check turn. It does double duty of pot control and allowing opponent to bet with worse hands.
But if I do check on the turn, I would continue checking on the river. I guess what the river bet accomplishes is making it look like we had a draw and getting one more street o value from a jack or a hero call from small pocket pairs?
We are definitely close to the top of our range on the river, so I guess theoretically we should call? As we may look like we missed a draw, we may also have invited villain to bluff.
But all that said, I think I would still fold in game.
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Old 03-14-2017, 10:36 AM   #4
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Re: 30 € The Big BvB with QJo from SB

What will pay us OTT that is worse than our hand? Also, from what hand are we protecting our range by betting OTT? @onehandatatime

Last edited by steinerbest; 03-14-2017 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 03-14-2017, 10:58 AM   #5
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Re: 30 € The Big BvB with QJo from SB

It's ok to check turn, I don't get river lead either.
Guess it's ok exploitatively, just theoretically awkward.
But if you lead expo can't see issue with folding to a jam.
Bluffcatch by c/c-Ing river has its merits but it seems a really bad way to butcher hand by expo leading and leveling yourself into bluffcatch bc now it appears you have a cute hand high in your ranks.
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Old 03-14-2017, 11:04 AM   #6
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Re: 30 € The Big BvB with QJo from SB

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Originally Posted by user12345 View Post
It's ok to check turn, I don't get river lead either.
Guess it's ok exploitatively, just theoretically awkward.
But if you lead expo can't see issue with folding to a jam.
Bluffcatch by c/c-Ing river has its merits but it seems a really bad way to butcher hand by expo leading and leveling yourself into bluffcatch bc now it appears you have a cute hand high in your ranks.
This. Unfortunately I reacted in the worst way possible, instabetting, tanking and calling... He showed 78s.
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Old 03-14-2017, 11:18 AM   #7
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Re: 30 € The Big BvB with QJo from SB

Quote:
Originally Posted by steinerbest View Post
What will pay us OTT that is worse than our hand? Also, from what hand are we protecting our range by betting OTT? @onehandatatime
flush draws, worse jx, smaller pockets as these would probably all continue and by checking the turn we are just allowing V to realize their equity in the hand, although there aren't many combos of lower pockets or worse jx that will be us OTR, I still think bet/folding is probably good here. But as someone said I think if we do check OTT we need to check OTR we're only getting called by better hands here.
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Old 03-14-2017, 02:19 PM   #8
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Re: 30 € The Big BvB with QJo from SB

Preflop. Why would you want to bet this big? I think you are spewing chips here. If he has trash, a 2,5x raise would do the job as well. OTF, I think both checking(mediocre kicker) and betting is fine. I probably check/call to show weakness on this dry board. Although it depends on the villain. If he checks otf I would lead turn. Call most raises OTT. x/call most bets on river.



As played. I would fold otr. AQ would 3bet pf. And it is easy say now we see the result but his hand looks exactly as it is(or A7)
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Old 03-15-2017, 04:23 AM   #9
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Re: 30 € The Big BvB with QJo from SB

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Preflop. Why would you want to bet this big? I think you are spewing chips here. If he has trash, a 2,5x raise would do the job as well.
Granted, it is on the larger side, but in the SB (OOP) with these stacks, I am not shocked at all at the preflop sizing! I actually think it is good.
People have adjusted to the small preflop sizings and realise that they can defend from the BB with great odds and a lot of hands. Against the SB, the BB even has position. So when we "steal" from the SB, we need to make it slightly bigger. With these stack depths, 2.8 seems fine to me.
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Old 03-15-2017, 10:06 AM   #10
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Re: 30 € The Big BvB with QJo from SB

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Originally Posted by scheier View Post
Granted, it is on the larger side, but in the SB (OOP) with these stacks, I am not shocked at all at the preflop sizing! I actually think it is good.
People have adjusted to the small preflop sizings and realise that they can defend from the BB with great odds and a lot of hands. Against the SB, the BB even has position. So when we "steal" from the SB, we need to make it slightly bigger. With these stack depths, 2.8 seems fine to me.
Yep. I think that applying leverage between stack and opening/3betting size is fundamental, especially OOP. I guess 2.8 is the best size on that spot: more and you're risking too much, less and you'll give v great pot odds to call IP.
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Old 03-16-2017, 05:32 AM   #11
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Re: 30 € The Big BvB with QJo from SB

I like the action all the way until the river. Your hand hasn't really improved that much apart from you're now beating KJ and AJ that you weren't before. Just check/call and pay less to see his random 7x


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Old 03-16-2017, 08:18 PM   #12
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Re: 30 € The Big BvB with QJo from SB

River lead is really poor, OP.

I like the flop, and the turn is close to a 100% check entire range spot. Villain is either going to be value betting or bluffing on the river. When we lead, we prevent him from doing the latter.
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Old 03-16-2017, 10:23 PM   #13
steinerbest
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Re: 30 € The Big BvB with QJo from SB

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Originally Posted by gregz41 View Post
River lead is really poor, OP.

I like the flop, and the turn is close to a 100% check entire range spot. Villain is either going to be value betting or bluffing on the river. When we lead, we prevent him from doing the latter.
Yep, thank you gregz Very very poor. I'll take this as a lesson for the future

What would we lead OTR? I mean, what is our lead OTR range in this spot?
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Old 03-17-2017, 06:32 AM   #14
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Re: 30 € The Big BvB with QJo from SB

There is no reason to have a river lead spot in this instance. When you x/c the previous street, you really shouldn't have leads on the next one unless you have a huge, huge range advantage over your opponent. Given we have very few combos better than QJ here that can beat 7x, we should not lead.

Also, if we did lead hands that beat 7x, our checking range gets significantly weaker as a result.
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Old 03-17-2017, 11:43 AM   #15
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Re: 30 € The Big BvB with QJo from SB

How agro he is? If this guy is agro, i like to chek flop and let him bluff. Flopp is pretty safe and you blockin flushdraw.
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