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5 live tourney 17 left CU, Button, SB sitting out.  Do I 3bet shove in BB? 5 live tourney 17 left CU, Button, SB sitting out.  Do I 3bet shove in BB?

06-14-2015 , 04:18 PM
There are 17 players left on two tables in a $105 live MTT. The tournament started with 51 and about 6 or 7 get paid. Starting stack was 50k chips. Blinds are now 4k-8k with a 1k ante. In the last round I lost a huge all-in for about 220k when I had AK against A6 all in preflop (the play in these live tourneys is absolutely atrocious) so I am now short stacked with 69k to start this hand. I am in the big blind so after 1k ante and 8k bb I have 60k behind. We have 9 players at our table, but this hand is the first after a break so the cutoff, button, and small blind are not at the table.

Three folds, Villain is UTG+3 and raises to 20k (I believe his stack is somewhere between 150k and 200k). HJ folds, and then it is back to me since CU, Button, and small blind are not there. I have 22. Is this is a ship or a fold?

Not too many solid reads on villain, other than I think it is safe to assume he is slightly better than most of the pretty awful field. The only hand I saw was when he stacked a guy with J 9 on a board of J J 10. The other guy spazzed all in with AK and after the hand the villain was wondering why the guy went crazy and bluffed it off with AK. If anyone can give information on whether my hand is always a shove against which types of players it would be helpful. Do I have any fold equity against a player described above, and does it even matter this short stacked? Is there a dynamic here with the cut off, button, and small blind being gone that should widen my shoving range?

Thanks.
5 live tourney 17 left CU, Button, SB sitting out.  Do I 3bet shove in BB? Quote
06-14-2015 , 07:04 PM
Even though there's a good chance hes raising light since people are sitting out, his calling range for your shove is probably about as wide as his open (as you mentioned the play is atrocious in these low buy-in tournaments). Hes probably calling with all pairs and even trash like Q10 and A7+. You should probably fold wait for a better spot.
5 live tourney 17 left CU, Button, SB sitting out.  Do I 3bet shove in BB? Quote
06-14-2015 , 11:51 PM
I guess the question is even if I have little to no fold equity, with the next level being 5k/10k with a 2k ante in about 15 minutes (or less than a round with average dealers), do I try to flip a coin here? If you're correct and his open range and calling range are almost the same, aren't I flipping a lot of the time here?
5 live tourney 17 left CU, Button, SB sitting out.  Do I 3bet shove in BB? Quote
06-15-2015 , 12:14 AM
I think you can win more by just shoving in un-opened pots.

I don't think shoving here is profitable as he is almost going to call 100% of the time and unless we find hands like 23/24/A2 we are going to be flipping and the times he has a better hand 33+ we are almost dead. As above I'd like to just shove un-opened pots and be the aggressor.
5 live tourney 17 left CU, Button, SB sitting out.  Do I 3bet shove in BB? Quote
06-16-2015 , 08:33 PM
Under 10 bigs. Heads up with a pair you gotta go!
5 live tourney 17 left CU, Button, SB sitting out.  Do I 3bet shove in BB? Quote
06-17-2015 , 09:03 AM
No fold equity & 22 is an absolute coin flip to any of his range. You can fold and see another orbit and open raise AI which is more +EV
5 live tourney 17 left CU, Button, SB sitting out.  Do I 3bet shove in BB? Quote
06-17-2015 , 09:31 AM
call, then jam all flops
5 live tourney 17 left CU, Button, SB sitting out.  Do I 3bet shove in BB? Quote
06-17-2015 , 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsilver
call, then jam all flops
That used to be called a stop and go.

Even though he made it 2.5, we are getting some pot odds. It isn't standard, but I don't mind calling and pushing on low dry flops and straight draws. Check/gii with sets. Not only are you likely ahead on low dry flops, but he usually has no pair, so may fold.
5 live tourney 17 left CU, Button, SB sitting out.  Do I 3bet shove in BB? Quote
06-17-2015 , 05:57 PM
I jammed. He called after a little thought with KJ off. Flop was 9 high. Turn card K.

Stop and go was in my mind but wasn't sure how exactly his range would connect with different flops. Like the play is so bad I don't wanna jam a nine high flop and get snapped by the 7 9 of spades or some scenario like that. Is jamming worse than folding worse than stop and go?

For some reason folding just seems like the worst option to me. For those of you in the fold camp, mostly large enough stacks at the table that will call allins in the blinds pretty wide, so waiting for a better spot seems a bit ineffective to me.
5 live tourney 17 left CU, Button, SB sitting out.  Do I 3bet shove in BB? Quote
06-17-2015 , 06:03 PM
If it helps at all, work on your flip winning %
5 live tourney 17 left CU, Button, SB sitting out.  Do I 3bet shove in BB? Quote
06-18-2015 , 03:18 AM
do what Dean says
5 live tourney 17 left CU, Button, SB sitting out.  Do I 3bet shove in BB? Quote
06-18-2015 , 02:21 PM
If you think his is calling 100% of the time i think the best play would be stop and go as said.
5 live tourney 17 left CU, Button, SB sitting out.  Do I 3bet shove in BB? Quote

      
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